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	<title>Comments on: Rare Earth? Not Enough Data to Know</title>
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		<title>By: ljk</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-78895</link>
		<dc:creator>ljk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-78895</guid>
		<description>Two guys make a toy galaxy and find life is confined to Earth-type planets:

http://www.universetoday.com/2010/02/08/if-the-earth-is-rare-we-may-not-hear-from-et/

If this is true and only fifteen percent of solar systems are like ours, then
we can make an even better estimate for how many ETI are in the galaxy.

But I think it is also safe to say we have a long way to go before we get
more accurate data to know the real numbers here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two guys make a toy galaxy and find life is confined to Earth-type planets:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.universetoday.com/2010/02/08/if-the-earth-is-rare-we-may-not-hear-from-et/" rel="nofollow">http://www.universetoday.com/2010/02/08/if-the-earth-is-rare-we-may-not-hear-from-et/</a></p>
<p>If this is true and only fifteen percent of solar systems are like ours, then<br />
we can make an even better estimate for how many ETI are in the galaxy.</p>
<p>But I think it is also safe to say we have a long way to go before we get<br />
more accurate data to know the real numbers here.</p>
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		<title>By: Existem outras civilizações? Elas também sonham em viajar para outras estrelas e mundos? &#171; Eternos Aprendizes</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70192</link>
		<dc:creator>Existem outras civilizações? Elas também sonham em viajar para outras estrelas e mundos? &#171; Eternos Aprendizes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70192</guid>
		<description>[...] Centauri Dreams: Rare Earth? Not Enough Data to Know [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Centauri Dreams: Rare Earth? Not Enough Data to Know [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kurt9</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70065</link>
		<dc:creator>kurt9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70065</guid>
		<description>Nick Lane wrote &quot;Power, Sex, and Suicide&quot;, which is the story about mitochondria.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sex-Suicide-Mitochondria-Meaning/dp/0192804812

Peter Hyams&#039; 2010 was also an excellent movie. However, for me it simply does not compare to Kubrick&#039;s 2001. 2001 was very philosophical compared to 2010. Also, I really like the scene with the space craft moving around to the Blue Danube waltz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick Lane wrote &#8220;Power, Sex, and Suicide&#8221;, which is the story about mitochondria.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sex-Suicide-Mitochondria-Meaning/dp/0192804812" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sex-Suicide-Mitochondria-Meaning/dp/0192804812</a></p>
<p>Peter Hyams&#8217; 2010 was also an excellent movie. However, for me it simply does not compare to Kubrick&#8217;s 2001. 2001 was very philosophical compared to 2010. Also, I really like the scene with the space craft moving around to the Blue Danube waltz.</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70045</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70045</guid>
		<description>From the answers to the poll, I would assume &#039;psychologically prepared&#039; means they&#039;re interested and accepting of the idea that intelligent life is out there. I doubt it means they&#039;ve stockpiled weapons. :-)  The rest of the poll gives the context that shows whether they&#039;re knowledgeable or not (or gullible or not), the respondents believe in a wide range of extraterrestrial possibilities and take a generally positive attitude toward them.

Interesting. I just found that a 2006 National Geographic Survey said 72% of the American population would be “excited and hopeful” if life was found on other planets. And then there&#039;s this from Space.com:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;A National Geographic-commissioned telephone survey of 1,000 Americans found that 60 percent believe life exists on other worlds. About 90 percent of those who believe in extraterrestrial life thought the Earth should respond to any communications emanating from an alien planet.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which is at the end of this story:

http://www.space.com/entertainment/050527_review_extraterrestrial.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the answers to the poll, I would assume &#8216;psychologically prepared&#8217; means they&#8217;re interested and accepting of the idea that intelligent life is out there. I doubt it means they&#8217;ve stockpiled weapons. :-)  The rest of the poll gives the context that shows whether they&#8217;re knowledgeable or not (or gullible or not), the respondents believe in a wide range of extraterrestrial possibilities and take a generally positive attitude toward them.</p>
<p>Interesting. I just found that a 2006 National Geographic Survey said 72% of the American population would be “excited and hopeful” if life was found on other planets. And then there&#8217;s this from Space.com:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;A National Geographic-commissioned telephone survey of 1,000 Americans found that 60 percent believe life exists on other worlds. About 90 percent of those who believe in extraterrestrial life thought the Earth should respond to any communications emanating from an alien planet.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Which is at the end of this story:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.space.com/entertainment/050527_review_extraterrestrial.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.space.com/entertainment/050527_review_extraterrestrial.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: ljk</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70041</link>
		<dc:creator>ljk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70041</guid>
		<description>I meant to ask this before regarding that Roper Poll:  When the
people who responded to the poll said they were &quot;prepared&quot; for
the discovery of ETI, did the pollsters explain or find out what
was meant by prepared?

Are we talking just psychologically able to deal with the fact
there really are aliens and get on with their lives, or did they
mean they would set up a parade or barbeque or welcome
signs?  Or do they mean building spaceships to meet them or
a landing pad for them to land their ships here, or do they mean 
they&#039;re loading their shotguns and boarding up their doors?

And what about the 26 percent who said they are NOT ready
for aliens?  What will they do with such news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to ask this before regarding that Roper Poll:  When the<br />
people who responded to the poll said they were &#8220;prepared&#8221; for<br />
the discovery of ETI, did the pollsters explain or find out what<br />
was meant by prepared?</p>
<p>Are we talking just psychologically able to deal with the fact<br />
there really are aliens and get on with their lives, or did they<br />
mean they would set up a parade or barbeque or welcome<br />
signs?  Or do they mean building spaceships to meet them or<br />
a landing pad for them to land their ships here, or do they mean<br />
they&#8217;re loading their shotguns and boarding up their doors?</p>
<p>And what about the 26 percent who said they are NOT ready<br />
for aliens?  What will they do with such news?</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70039</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70039</guid>
		<description>Wow, that reminds me that I had intended to read the Grinspoon book some time back and never got around to it! Thanks -- it now goes onto the reading list (again). For those unfamiliar with it:

http://tinyurl.com/cf4mgl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that reminds me that I had intended to read the Grinspoon book some time back and never got around to it! Thanks &#8212; it now goes onto the reading list (again). For those unfamiliar with it:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cf4mgl" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cf4mgl</a></p>
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		<title>By: ljk</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70037</link>
		<dc:creator>ljk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70037</guid>
		<description>The other amazing early scene in 2010 is when Leonov approaches
the USS Discovery as it is tumbling end over end between Jupiter
above and Io below.  The US spaceship is tinged yellow from all
the sulfur that has been belched upon it by the Io volcanoes far
below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/2010_spaceships.jpg

And of course Jupiter being turned into a star by millions of Monoliths.

Another dated feature about 2010 are the computers.  They used
real computer graphics as opposed to the hand-drawn versions in
2001, yet the 1968 ones look better.

Yes, without Carl Sagan&#039;s quite literally brave efforts, the concept
of alien life in all its forms would still be in a big state of gigglehood 
and dismissiveness.  David Grinspoon discusses this at length in his
book Lonely Planets, where he reveals that Sagan was once asked
to help a group of scientists create a fake ETI signal detection but
declined as he felt the ramifications of the discovery of the hoax
would far outweigh finding no real signals at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other amazing early scene in 2010 is when Leonov approaches<br />
the USS Discovery as it is tumbling end over end between Jupiter<br />
above and Io below.  The US spaceship is tinged yellow from all<br />
the sulfur that has been belched upon it by the Io volcanoes far<br />
below:</p>
<p><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/2010_spaceships.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/2010_spaceships.jpg</a></p>
<p>And of course Jupiter being turned into a star by millions of Monoliths.</p>
<p>Another dated feature about 2010 are the computers.  They used<br />
real computer graphics as opposed to the hand-drawn versions in<br />
2001, yet the 1968 ones look better.</p>
<p>Yes, without Carl Sagan&#8217;s quite literally brave efforts, the concept<br />
of alien life in all its forms would still be in a big state of gigglehood<br />
and dismissiveness.  David Grinspoon discusses this at length in his<br />
book Lonely Planets, where he reveals that Sagan was once asked<br />
to help a group of scientists create a fake ETI signal detection but<br />
declined as he felt the ramifications of the discovery of the hoax<br />
would far outweigh finding no real signals at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70035</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70035</guid>
		<description>Yes, I do like 2010 better, but I agree with your comment, Larry. The film isn&#039;t as timeless as 2001 and misses some of the grand sweep of the earlier treatment. The point about the humans acting like automatons is exactly right -- they were a fascinating contrast to HAL in 2001, with all the questions that raised. 2010 shows them in a much more &#039;normal&#039; light, but on the other hand, that boosted the believability factor just a bit for me, and the aerobraking sequences were terrific, as you note.

It&#039;s interesting to speculate where we would be re the public perception of aliens if there had been no Carl Sagan. He made the prospect real for so many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I do like 2010 better, but I agree with your comment, Larry. The film isn&#8217;t as timeless as 2001 and misses some of the grand sweep of the earlier treatment. The point about the humans acting like automatons is exactly right &#8212; they were a fascinating contrast to HAL in 2001, with all the questions that raised. 2010 shows them in a much more &#8216;normal&#8217; light, but on the other hand, that boosted the believability factor just a bit for me, and the aerobraking sequences were terrific, as you note.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to speculate where we would be re the public perception of aliens if there had been no Carl Sagan. He made the prospect real for so many.</p>
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		<title>By: ljk</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70033</link>
		<dc:creator>ljk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70033</guid>
		<description>I am glad to see that people may indeed be on their way to a
better acceptance and understanding of alien life, especially the
intelligent variety.  

Perhaps all these years of fictional aliens, skewered as their
perceptions often have been, have helped to prepare the public 
for the idea of other intelligent species when the day comes that
we do confirm their existence.

As Frank White said in his 1990 book The SETI Factor, how we 
will respond to finding alien life depends on what kind of organisms
we will encounter (microbes or Kardashev Type III types) and in 
what manner (an ancient signal from a very distant planet or a 
giant spacecraft hovering over New York City).

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=646

Alan Tough also addressed these issues in his paper here:

http://ieti.org/tough/articles/acta4210.pdf

I agree that both 2001: A Space Odyssey and Blade Runner are
among the best SF films ever made, with 2001 being unmatched
on so many levels in 40-plus years.

But there are other good SF films, of course, especially during the
era from the late 1960s to the early 1970s.  You can find a dozen
or more SF films from that time period which did a good job with
plots and meaning without either the big budgets and CGI special
effects that have dominated SF cinema since the first Star Wars
film in 1977 - most of them at the cost of good plots and meaning.

Blade Runner, made in 1982, is a happy and relatively rare 
exception to the post-Star Wars era rule.  

Paul, I know you like 2010 better and I agree it is a good film as
science fiction cinema goes (also made in the post-Star Wars era
of 1984).  The early scenes of Leonov&#039;s arrival at Jupiter alone are
worth the price of admission.  But in some ways it seems more
dated than 2001 and director Peter Hyams missed the whole point
that Kubrick was trying to make by having the humans act like
automatons compared to HAL 9000, a real machine.  

Instead the characters in 2010 talk and talk and talk and explain 
just about everything that is happening in the film, whereas Kubrick 
and Clarke only gave the audience just enough info in 2001 to make
their own conclusions as to what was going on in the film.  Kubrick
even said if they answered all your questions in 2001, then he had
failed with the film.

A refreshing change of pace from most of today&#039;s films, where even
the comedies telegraph every joke to make sure the audience knows
it is supposed to be funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad to see that people may indeed be on their way to a<br />
better acceptance and understanding of alien life, especially the<br />
intelligent variety.  </p>
<p>Perhaps all these years of fictional aliens, skewered as their<br />
perceptions often have been, have helped to prepare the public<br />
for the idea of other intelligent species when the day comes that<br />
we do confirm their existence.</p>
<p>As Frank White said in his 1990 book The SETI Factor, how we<br />
will respond to finding alien life depends on what kind of organisms<br />
we will encounter (microbes or Kardashev Type III types) and in<br />
what manner (an ancient signal from a very distant planet or a<br />
giant spacecraft hovering over New York City).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=646" rel="nofollow">http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=646</a></p>
<p>Alan Tough also addressed these issues in his paper here:</p>
<p><a href="http://ieti.org/tough/articles/acta4210.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ieti.org/tough/articles/acta4210.pdf</a></p>
<p>I agree that both 2001: A Space Odyssey and Blade Runner are<br />
among the best SF films ever made, with 2001 being unmatched<br />
on so many levels in 40-plus years.</p>
<p>But there are other good SF films, of course, especially during the<br />
era from the late 1960s to the early 1970s.  You can find a dozen<br />
or more SF films from that time period which did a good job with<br />
plots and meaning without either the big budgets and CGI special<br />
effects that have dominated SF cinema since the first Star Wars<br />
film in 1977 &#8211; most of them at the cost of good plots and meaning.</p>
<p>Blade Runner, made in 1982, is a happy and relatively rare<br />
exception to the post-Star Wars era rule.  </p>
<p>Paul, I know you like 2010 better and I agree it is a good film as<br />
science fiction cinema goes (also made in the post-Star Wars era<br />
of 1984).  The early scenes of Leonov&#8217;s arrival at Jupiter alone are<br />
worth the price of admission.  But in some ways it seems more<br />
dated than 2001 and director Peter Hyams missed the whole point<br />
that Kubrick was trying to make by having the humans act like<br />
automatons compared to HAL 9000, a real machine.  </p>
<p>Instead the characters in 2010 talk and talk and talk and explain<br />
just about everything that is happening in the film, whereas Kubrick<br />
and Clarke only gave the audience just enough info in 2001 to make<br />
their own conclusions as to what was going on in the film.  Kubrick<br />
even said if they answered all your questions in 2001, then he had<br />
failed with the film.</p>
<p>A refreshing change of pace from most of today&#8217;s films, where even<br />
the comedies telegraph every joke to make sure the audience knows<br />
it is supposed to be funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591&#038;cpage=2#comment-70029</link>
		<dc:creator>Administrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6591#comment-70029</guid>
		<description>Of these, &#039;Bladerunner&#039; is my personal favorite, in whichever version. I watch it yearly to marvel at Ridley Scott&#039;s work and only wish he would turn back to SF for future projects. Great script, too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of these, &#8216;Bladerunner&#8217; is my personal favorite, in whichever version. I watch it yearly to marvel at Ridley Scott&#8217;s work and only wish he would turn back to SF for future projects. Great script, too!</p>
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