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On the Speculative Edge

The continuing activity on the Practical Positronic Rocket threads has made it clear that we need a place for speculations that do not flow out of particular posts. What we’re aiming at down the road is to implement discussion software that will make such threads easy to follow and contribute to, but for now we’re dealing with weblog software that is not optimized for the task. Hence this thread, which is open to rational theorizing about interstellar issues in comments that do not reflect content found in the posts elsewhere on the site. If your idea is ‘blue sky’ and not related to a particular post, this is the place to put it.

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • James M. Essig October 6, 2008, 22:00

    Hi George, Forrest and Other Folks;

    Its good to be back at tau zero despite the negative news on the econony and all of the other negative news that bombards us every time we tune into a major news broadcast.

    I was trying to think up some grand vision for a galactic civilization wherein the energy for transportation would simply be recycled analogously to the recycling of kinetic energy and potential energy of a perfect pendulum when it occurred to me that a stellar sphere world, or stellar mass range world that takes the form of a Dyson Sphere like assemblage except wherein the mass of the stellar sphere world would be 1,000 to 10,000 solar masses or greater, might be possible to construct in the distant future. The mass would be so chosen such that the persons inhabiting the sphere would feel a downward force of gravity due to the sphere’s center of mass, of one Earth G. The sphere would have a thickness commensurate with supporting a mass of humanity (body mass) perhaps equal to 0.01 Solar mass which is about 10 EXP 26 adult humans simultaneously. The heat generated by human metabolism and infrastructure would be captured by super efficient IR PV cells, living quarter sub-compartmentalization, and energy capture while at the same time having a dewar style outer insulation. The energy capture mechanism would have to be very rigorous becuase 10 EXP 26 human bodies would radiate about 10 EXP 28 watts of power; about 25 times the current solar output. The sphere could be held up against collapse by electrical charge instilled on the inside or throughout the sphere or perhaps some sort of stable permanent magnetic self repulsive rug like mechanism on the inside of the sphere.

    An even larger system would have the mass of a large galaxy, about one trillion solar masses, and likewise be held up against gravatic collapse. The radius of the sphere would be chosen such that the self gravitation acting to pull the sphere inward would be minimal, equal to one Earth G.

    One can even imagine such spheres in the cosmically remote future having the mass of the currently observable universe and once again, held up by electrical charge or permanent magnetism. Transporation would be effected by travel tubes or electromagnetic mass drivers, the would extract energy from extreme gamma factor cars traveling within by electrodynamic means thus permiting nearly perfect energy recycling.

    This is just one of multiple grand visions I like to dream about for the future of humanity which might never come true, however, if we can plan as the civilization of humanity to get beyond our political squabbles, perhaps this and even much greater things are possible in the depths of future eternity.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 7, 2008, 10:30

    jim great great ideas as always yes…this is for sure the speculative edge!!! a privilage to be here. we will i hope in the future find huge projects that we can engineer at that time to accomplish things that we today can only wish about! but it is funny i was just saying to my wife afew days ago… imagine in say 1880 if you wanted for some reason to get from the east to the west coast for some reason…well goooood luck no really easy way to do it! it would take time money bravery etc etc. today? just book a flight and do the same thing in a very few hours while maybe seated reading a book!!!!!! sure some people back then like us might have had ideas but lol they would surely have been as sf back then as some of our ideas must seem today! as i always like to say and LIKE TO DEPEND ON… advacement in science tends to be exponential so maybe in a hndred years or so even a trip to the moon or mars will not be the huge deal it seems today!! i hope so anyway. thank you very much guys your friend george scaglione

  • James M. Essig October 8, 2008, 14:50

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above response. I hope to live at least another 50 years to hopefully see a self sustaining Mars colony being developed as well as the first interstellar manned mission launched.

    A rather bazaar idea occurred to me regarding the possible infinite extent of our universe. From antiquity, the history of the major religions on Earth have held that there is just one universe or just one physical Cosmos. Suppose they might have had some source of hidden knowledge regarding creation or some hidden source of philosophical wisdom; just how large could our universe be?

    I have recently, in fact today, started contemplating the possible existence of hyper-extended number lines wherein the number lines extend pass the ordinality of the Aleph 0 integer. Note that Aleph 0 refers to the number of positive integers and is the smallest cardinality of infinity.

    Suppose a physical analgoue of a number line that is hyper extended exists wherein the number of units or integer-wise step ticks is not Aleph 0, but rather Alleph 1, which is the next larger Cardinality equal to the number of real numbers. Imagine that!, a universe that extends Aleph 1 light years.

    I began to consider, what if the extent of our universe is Aleph 2 lightyears, Aleph 3 light years, or even Aleph (Aleph 0) lightyears. What if the cardinality of the extent of our universe is such a high cardinality of lightyears such that the cardinality could not be symbolically defined even using quantum scale characters within the whole volume of the observable universe?

    Perhaps, even in the event that there is just one universe, the universe might be so large, such that the traditional concepts of the multiverse or the fractal verse as it would exist in theories such as Chaotic inflation might seem as a let down or dissapointment in comparison.

    Then of course we have from antiquity the concept of the spiritual cosmos as a well articulated cultural artifact of the last 4,000 years of human history and which extends across all cultures and major faiths. Now, I am not trying to propose any faith-based agenda or to convert anyone here, but I am trying to convey the sense of the possibility that there might be additional constructs that are neither physical nor spiritual that we as humanity have not developed yet. One such construct that comes to mind is perhaps the reified existence of numbers and the inter-relationships between them wherein numbers as such are neither physical nor spiriitual. How many other simmilarly diss-similar realms could there be.

    If there exists just one universe, perhaps the universe consists of Aleph 0, Aleph 1,…. Aleph (Aleph 0),.., domains wherein each domain or nearly so has its unique laws of physics, constants of nature, structures, level of space time quantization etc. Perhaps each domain is infinite in extent.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 9, 2008, 15:53

    jim,yes i sure hope we have the possibility of seeing a mars base in our lifetimes ,likewise for the first manned starship! funny thing in that star trek book i am reading they mention – the first manned starships primative and pre warp as the may have been! well,lol, it occured to me that that is EXACTLY what all of us here are shooting for”primative” or not! maybe the answer however IS to work on warp drive cause it will certainly simplify the equasion! i make no secret of rooting for worm holes too as dr sagan liked – but that might even be harder than warp although as i write maybe one study could help the other along! or so i thought,hope i am correct.lol one more thing on that trek book i mentioned – carl sagan IS in it as a holodeck character.coooool man oh man if we could ever talk to sagan or einstein or you name the person (again,in our lifetimes!) – on a holodeck.but maybe i ask for way too much but hope springs eternal….especially in this group! respect fully jim ,forrest,paul,everyone…your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 9, 2008, 23:04

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above enthusiasm. Warp drive and wormholes I hope and pray will be utilized oneday.

    Regarding the recent unveiling of a commercial quantum data key encryption system, while overt observation of a photon would obviously change its state, I have some idea on how such a system might be defeated although the technology required to do so would be an absolutely daunting attempt to detect the low frequency electromagnetic disturbance that might be emitted by the individual photons as they traveled down the fiber optic cable.

    In theory, the polarization of a photon, its passage through a fiber optic cable, and other very subtle interactions of the photons with the medium of transmission should produce very small perturbations in the atoms and molecules of the fiber optic as the photons pass through. The fiber optics are not absolutely lossless and so some energy of the photon should be transferred to the cable as heat, electromagnetic perturbations as a result of this heat, and other effects.

    The ability to detect such electro-dynamic field emissions which would be extremely low energy magnetic and/or electric flux patterns based on virtually absolutely miniscule amounts of heat would be like giving some one on a planet orbiting a distant star an EEG using a receiver here on Earth.

    The above conjecture as a thought experiment might offer ways in which to consider teasing out ultra-weak signals in a horrendously low signal to noise ratio environment. Perhaps such considerations can lead to meaningful conjectures about otherwise hidden quantum variables or perhaps what I will refer to as pseudo-sub-quantum level behavior since the heat released by the individual photons as the photons pass through a small differential segment of the fiber optic cable would be many orders of magnitude less than the energy of the photon wherein the photons used in fiber optics are on the rough order of 1 eV in energy.

    If gravitational effects of the photons including any associated with the photons polarization patterns and energy etc., could be detected in some future gravitational wave technology of unheard of sensitivity, gravitational radiation detection might be used to detect the state of the photons.

    The only reason why I bring up this rather odd notion is the fact that the evolution of the process of quantum de-coherence was observed in a microwave pulse that was reflected back and fourth about a billion times between two almost perfect microwave reflectors. The quantum state evolution of the microwave pulse was probed by a series of ions which where made to pass through the microwave pulse as the pulse gradually de-cohered. A report of this fascinating experiment can be read on the Science News website under the menu selection “Matter and Energy”.

    I will have another example of how an extremely low energy event has been shown to effect the evolution of a macroscopic system in the comming days.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 10, 2008, 13:48

    jim as always thanks for a good and well thought out reply look forward to hearing more…also ,WISH MORE FOLKS would share there concepts here! as always it is pretty much the jim and george and forrest show!!?? seriously people,you know who you are lol do me a favor,suprise me!!!! respects to one and all your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 10, 2008, 17:03

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the comments.

    George, Forrest, and myself very much look forward to any comments from anyone else who would like to contribute here.

    Regarding quantum scale of near mesoscale events that profoundly effect large complex macroscopic systems with a very strong, immeadiate, and seemingly direct coupling, the tiny electrically charged probes that electrically stimulated just one neuron or portion thereof, if I am not mistaken, during experiments on live fully conscious human subjects, resulted in immeadiate time dependant experiences being lived out in full in the form of motion picture like movies with the full range of affect, sensory impressions, and other aspects of the experience as it had origionally occured. Morover, in at least some instances, the persons under study where able to give a first person narrative of the experiences like we often due while recalling a vivid experience with nastalgia.

    This tiny effect of stimulation immeadiately results in the macroscopic phase change in the state of the humans conscious experience. To the extent that conscious sentient life of the human person depends on the whole brain, it would seem that this tiny effect results in a large scale immeadiate and perhaps direct altering of the mind brain state.

    The study of the human brain under such extreme boundary conditions may lead us to fundamental insights on the realms in which quanttum scale events transform into classical scale events including the process of quantum decoherence as it effects macroscopic systems through direct and immeadiate casual links.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 11, 2008, 9:56

    jim yes the other day i thought i saw an article saying that when people have a near death expierince it is a proof of the quantuum that they can be at the same time in 2 places!!! namely on the ground AND floating over their bodies!!!!!! neat. i only wish i could think of a way to use that for spaceflight but lol only a fanatic (like me) would want too!!!!!!!! :) thank you very much your friend george

  • george scaglione October 14, 2008, 14:59

    jim,forrest,paul,everybody – just thought i’d mention an idea i got from the star trek book which i have been reading over the last two weeks or so,and a real tome it is,divided into five sections written by at least seven authors…the latest of what appears to be a series which concerns the star fleet corps of engineers.but anyhow i know everybody here is familiar with the concept of a spacecraft getting a boost from a “deep gravity well” like jupiter or saturn.well here,they bring up the concept of black holes,also a pretty reasonably deep gravity well – heck not too long ago jim i think,brought up the subject of the really huge black holes that are enclosed in many if not all galaxies! sooooo,does the thought not naturally occur ( and i swear at this moment i cannot recall if the book said this per se or weather or not i just extrapolated as i was reading,but yeah i think the book came pretty close.),that if one where to use the above gravity boost idea,only using something really humongous like the gravity well of a large black hole…could you not THEN really really get a booooooost to who knows what velocity(?!!!!) please anyone feel free to correct me if they think that i have in any way made a mistake but i can sure see some significant speeds being involved! as i think i have said before our universe sure has some profound energy sources in it and “all we need to do” is learn how to take advantage of them and then we will really have some propulsion going for us,no doubt! only trouble is my friends is that it might seriously involve the engineering that lol we do not have yet from say one or two centuries in the future. but again,just maybe not since i also believe that science and engineering proceed in an exponential fashion. well guys i sure hope this kicks off a good discussion of how to get from here to there in our universe.i would like to read any or all ideas from any or all members of the group.thank you most respectfully your friend george scaglione

  • James M. Essig October 16, 2008, 16:45

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above response.

    I can imagine the extreme gamma factors that huge world size space zondes could acquire doing an antimatter rocket driven gravity assist manuvour around such blackholes.

    Imagine the gravity assist that could be gained using a Garganuan black hole with a mass of perhaps 100 trillion Suns. The regions outside the blackhole and extending 100s of lighyears from its event horizon would pull the craft inward with an accelleration of billions of Earth Gs. If the craft were then to somehow switch on a repulsive gravity field as it reach its point of closest approach to the event horizon, the craft could gain additional kinetic energy commensurate with the effect of a repulsive acceleration of billions or more Gs. If theories simmilar to that of doubly special relativity are applicable to massive objects with extreme relativistic kinetic energy to rest mass ratios, perhaps such a craft could break the light barrier while traveling inertially through space time thus perhaps permnitting backward time travel.

    Great ideas George! Keep them comming.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 17, 2008, 12:44

    jim thank you we seem to be on the same page concerning these matters.only little problem is that they concern technology that we either do not have right now or lol are not likely to have within the next few months!!!! still as the name of this site implies it is fun to speculate! all the best, george

  • James M. Essig October 19, 2008, 15:08

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the comments.

    This thread provides an outstanding venue for expression of far out ideas and is just one of many hundreds of fine threads that Paul has provided over the years. I really believe, hope, and pray that Tau Zero/Centauri Dreams is going to go down in history as a great and visionary organization in which many fine minds have contributed to mankind’s leaving the cradle of the Earth for the stars.

    I had an interesting musing about future biological evolution of the human species. We have always assumed that human bodies would continue to take the form much as they have currently with DNA/RNA and ATP and Crebs cycle based thermodynamic processes.

    Perhaps, as the universe gradually cools and becomes ever less dense in terms of mattergy and energy supplies, human bodies will have to evolve to survive off of the rareified cosmos. Eventually, perhaps the human body will evolve to take on the state of frozen or stabilized low frequency electromagnetic waves and/or magnetic or electrical field patterns. Perhaps a means of procreation of such human bodies will also evolve thus permitting our modern cherished notion of human sexuality to per due into eternity.

    The human body might alternatively evolve to take on other forms such as forms composed of Cold Dark Matter, stable arrangements of Hot Dark Matter, or stable bound states of gravitational radiation or more exotically, perhaps stable forms of general relativistically distorted space time or perhaps even stable or meta-stable forms based on zero point field fluctuations.

    Regardless of how the human body/brain evolves, if we last as a species, our physical forms and perhaps even our souls (for those who choose to believe in such) will evolve to take on forms we have not yet imagined in the coming trillions plus years.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig October 20, 2008, 8:51

    Hi George;

    Some additional thoughts occured to me over the past few minutes as I was reflecting on the late 1970s TV series Battle Star Galactica in which the fleet of ships was capable of traveling at or near C.

    It occurred to me that if we could actually reach the precise special relativistic value of C in a pure vacuum in terms of inertial travel through space perhaps via such means as completely removing the proposed Higgs Field(s) in the space that the crafts travel through or somehow otherwise screening the craft from the effects of the Higgs Fields, then perhaps travel at exactly C, inertially through space would be possible.

    Regardless of the methods of reaching C, perhaps once C was precisely reached wherein the aspects of the massive components of the ship would still have their constituent atomic matter’s properties intact such as spin quantum numbers, magnetic dipole moment, nuclear magnetron values, baryon numbers, and the like, perhaps the ship would essentially be able to pass through ordinary mattergy without interacting with it because the craft would be traveling at the thresh-hold velocity whereby differential volumetric portions of the craft would pass through differential volumetic elements of the interstellar medium before or just as they would have a chance to be casually coupled via the limiting value of C for information exchange. There might be some aspect of massive matter traveling at precisely C that permits such decoupling that is obviously not manifest by electromagnetic radiation or gravitational radiation which also travel precisely at C in a vacuum.

    Once a massive space craft reached C precisely, it might travel an infinite distance is space or a whole eternity into the future in just one Planck Time Unit ship time if Einstein’s Special and General Relativilty theories hold up. Perhaps the crafts would enter a whole entire new realm wherein one miniscule finite time element in the new realm would tick by during an eternity or atleast a cosmic finite time period in the known universe or the realm of special and general relativistic 4-D ordinary space time.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 20, 2008, 16:55

    jim you are 101% correct i too hope that this organization will go down as having done great good for the human race in its inevitable climb to the stars. i hope i have done some small degree of good in that respect myself! also yeah,ships that can travel at or near C will be pretty indispensible and i sincerely hope that we will see them by the end of this century.why not? thank you sir your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 21, 2008, 13:54

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments. I am greatly looking foward to the decades ahead regarding manned space-flight.

    I had some reflections on the size of creation or existence which I think are intellegable to any one and which have probably been thought about by just about every adult on the planet who is interested in cosmology at some point or another but which I felt, nonetheless, compelled to comment on.

    We as space heads have heard of the concepts involving: the conjecture of the Many Worlds or parallel histories of the Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Theory; the existence of identical degenerate duplicates of our observable universe in consideration of the possibility that such would result in an infinite number of identical volumetric elements within an infinite universe based on statistical probability and the finite number of possible states within our observable universe; the possible ever growing number of universes within the fractal-verse or multiverse of chaotic inflation theory; and the production of or entry into entirely new histories as a result of the need to avoid paradoxes in the event that backward time travel one day proves possible and the like. Some new conjectures suggest that all of these above concepts about universes or sub-sets thereof may represent the same reality or be related in some fundamental manner. These all of these otherwise seperate universes may all simply be aspects of just one universe wherein this “just one universe” is just one universe among an non-symbolically definably infinite set of completely non-coupled creations.

    Thus, I would like to make a very bold speculation that perhaps there exist more than one entire cosmos as such. Perhaps there are a non-symbolically definably large cardinality of entire creations that are in no way coupled or related to each other in either a casual, existential, ontological, accidental, or any other manner. In short, if one of these, any multiple, or all but one of these creations where to absolutely cease to exist, the remaining set of such creations or entire cosmoses would be completely uneffected and would not in any way notice the dissappearence or alteration of the annihilated cosmoses.

    The idea here is presented for both those who believe in a God as creator of the world and also for those who have no believe in any form of eternal God.
    For those who profess no belief system, I would like to conjecture that if one cosmos bothers to exist, why should not there exist an undefinable cardinality of completely decoupled cosmoses or creations.

    If such exists, given a whole eternity of explore and evolve, could we bridge the divide between these realms?


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig October 21, 2008, 18:24

    Hi George;

    I had some musings on the amount of energy available to humanity as we reach ever further out into our universe.

    Given that there will be supplies of exothermically fusionable fuel for at least as long as star formation is possible, perhaps an epoch lasting 10 EXP 14.5 years, and assumming that we can effectively colonize our universe in a colonization wave front spread velocity of just under C through space, we will colonize out to a distance of 10 EXP 14.5 light years assumming no net expansion or contraction of space time. In reality, for significant space time expansion which seems likely given current conjecture on the subject, the distance traveled by mankind from the Milky Way Galaxy will be several orders of magnitude greater.

    Given some eternal grand scheme of the universe, at some distant epoch, mankind should have available an amount of mattergy equal to (n)(Mo) where n is a huge but finite number (an ensemble) and Mo is the current mattergy content of the observable universe. Given any inviolatable principles of signal transmission through space of a maximum velocity of C according to special and general relativity, we might in theory be able to accellerate space craft through space to any value of velocity of V = C – e where e can be made arbitrarilly small but remains finite for finite supplies of energy available to mankind.

    Perhaps some sort of mass energy entanglement can be transferred from one lump of mattergy to another as mankind progresses ever further out into the cosmos such that the mutual serial and/or paralell levels of such entanglement can be utilized to transfer the quantum information defining lumps of mattergy over cosmic distances in such a manner that the whole of the mattergy of the human occupied volume of cosmic space time becomes effectively available at any given sub-set volumetric element of this occupied region thus permitting a quantity of mattergy available at any location in occupied space time to be equal to a limiting value of infinity as the volume of colonized space time approaches infinity. The caveat here involves teleportation of the quantities of mass along with the quantum mechanical information defining such mass such as the quantum statistical thermodynamic properties defining the overall wave function of the lump of mass to be teleported. As far as I can tell, current quantum teleportation schemes entail the transport of the quantum information only and not the substance of the quantity of the actual mattery thus defined in form by the teleported quantum information.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 22, 2008, 17:37

    yes jim i have heard of alot of those ideas/concepts and rest assured have even come up with potential ways to use the energies involved in those aspects of nature for propulsion ,travel etc. and yes buddy you hit the nail right on the head with your second set of musings above! energy! and how we could use it is the heart of all of the space head dreams we read and write about here. keep up the good thinking! you bet,your friend george

  • george scaglione October 24, 2008, 15:13

    ok jim,forrest,paul, everybody a couple of things i have just got to say – first of all i just got the new issue of scientific american for november.did not care much for it,not enough about space….but! saw the BEST advertisement i EVER SAW in my life.just have to quote it! on page 11 is a full page ad by shell…it says “SAY NO TO NO ISN’T ITHIGH TIME someone got negative about negativity?yes it is,look around.the world is full of things that according to nay sayers should never have happened. “impossible,impractical no.’ and yet yes.continents have been found,men have played golf on the moon,straw is being turned into biofuel to power cars.yes yes yes what does it take to turn no into yes? curiosity.an open mind. a willingness to take risks. and when the problem seems most insoluble when the challenge is hardest,when everyone is shaking their heads,to say : lets go.” FANTASTIC! if that does not capture the spirit of our group WHAT WOULD!!!!!!!! long after this magazine has been recycled that page will still be in my files of things that i keep for a long time! further more on the science channel this morning i saw a half hour special about the ideas which are being developed that we hope will send us to mars.one idea was to send the parts of the craft to orbit to be assembled there and launched. they mentioned that we had already gotten practice like this with the ISS . i see the hubble repair missions in much the same light.nothing new there,unfortunately i have been hocking about ideas like that ever since i saw the space craft discovery in 2001 a space odyysey. other cool ideas where advanced…also, to me,nothing new.one scientist said “alot of sf ideas are fast becomming fact,for instance , the use of anti matter for space craft fuel”!! did not see his point,i mean, as far as i know that is still only just theory.very few star fleet craft are actually in service today! (he said sarcastically),me not the scientist.anyway guys just had to say these things to you.am i dedicated!? lol who else would copy an ad from scientic american vebatim for the group!?? i’d love to get any feedback posibble my friends on any of the above. very respectfully your friend george scaglione

  • James M. Essig October 25, 2008, 12:16

    Hi George;

    Thanks very much for the enthusiastic posting.

    We as the human race have learned to harness a cosmic power source, the source of the majority of the radiant energy produced within in our universe, and all other universes like it including any parallel universes of the kind proposed by the Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Theory. This cosmic energy source is nuclear fusion, albiet in yet a still uncontrollable manner in thermonuclear devices.

    This harnessing of nuclear fusion perhaps holds the key or at least a key to our eternal expansion out into the great unknown. Future interstellar ramjet technology, fusion pellet runway technology, nuclear fusion energy conversion into antimatter for antimatter drive and matter/antimatter drive space craft, multi-stage nuclear fusion rockets, and perhaps the future discovery at the LHC or ever more capable machines of additional nuclear forces, may permit undreamed of space propulsion technologies.

    Look how far we have progressed in just 200 years! I have a hope and a dream that mankind will fufill an eternal destiny to travel ever further out into the great mysterious void of space time, into other universes, and perhaps even into other forms of realms. Perhaps we will meet our ETI brothers and sisters in the great expansion outward, perhaps even within the next century or so and share with them our common prolife mission to expand the human race, help expand the ETI races, learn ever more about the mysteriies of the human persons and the ETI persons, and progress in growing in knowledge of the ultimate reality (which to me is God).

    When I was in fourth grade, my teacher would show the class a film strip about the building of technological marvels. The film strip would occasionally include a repitition of a short ditti in song format that went as follows; “Building the Impossible, They Said it Couldn,t be Done …”

    That idealistic spirit that pervaded our space program during the Apollo Program needs to be greatly rekindeld.

    To all of those who view this thread and series of comments, as well as the many other fine threads provided by the visionary site administrator, Paul Gilster, feel entirely fee to comment. No idea is to big, no idea is too small, and no idea to too far out to post on this website. If you have ideas or notions well thought out, mathematically formulated or not, simple notions, pen and paper sketches of interstellar propulsion concepts, etc., feel entirely free to comment. In a very real sense, we as contributors and/or viewers of these many fine Tau Zero threads are the first pioneers in mankinds eternal journey of progress outward.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 25, 2008, 13:48

    jim,yes sir alot of good ideas.but the problem as i see it is this – not enough research done yet to bring these things to reality! we really really need more work done to bring these concepts into the clear light of day! ps i had already typed out my answer to the above this far…then accidentally hit the wrong button,sooooo,if some of the above by accident turns up twice apologies in advance! well, lol, enough about my mistake! in my humble opinion we will see fusion driven space craft first – hopefully in the relatively near future.what i mean by that is say 50 to 75 years! then the matter/anti matter drives maybe afew years after that! but as i am fond of saying …since science tends to advance in an exponential way i will go out on a limb and say rather…. maybe fusion in 50 years matter anti/matter 20 or so years after that!! so at best we will see some REAL PROGRESS by 2078! lol if medicine keeps up hahahaha perhaps even i will be around to see it! although i will be a veritable “boy” of just 129!!!!!!!! we sure do need to rekindle the apollo spirit you are correct! also my friend you are very correct that we are very blest to take part in this line of discussion on tau zero.just maybe making a contribution!!! also let me echo the sentiment that if you are reading these comments,please do feel free to have your say also! at best we can make a contribution.at worst we are still only just a group of people talking! respectfully to one and all your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 25, 2008, 22:29

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Regarding longevity enhancing methods, I take dailly supplements of Vitamin C, Co-enzyme Q-10, Omega-3 Fish oil, Selenium, Grape Extract, Vitamin-D, and a Cartilage supplement. There is some strong anedotal evidence that some dietary supplements can be useful in staving off the aging process.

    I had some interesting ideas tonight which I had mentioned previously at Tau Zero but which I have mentally developed in more detail. The first idea involves the concept of accelerating a space craft to a large fraction of C and then deploying a superconducting cable with extremely high current criticality threshold and extremely high magnetic field criticality threshold.

    Basically, the idea involves the notion of deploying a superconducting electrical energy generation magnetic field based induction coil that has a length of one billion kilometers to 10 trillion kilometers that is composed of a single continuous conductor or a series of seperate current carrying loops. The cable(s) would generate tremendous electrical current and electrical power as it passed through the magnetic field of the interstellar or intergalactic medium as a result of the huge number of coil loops: in the case of loops with a circumference of one kilometer, the number loops would be equal to 10 trillion for a light year length of superconducting wire.

    The current generated within the cable(s) would become extremely high as would the electrical power within by virtue of the huge number of loops, and the relativistic velocuty at which the cable passes through the magnetic lines of force in the vacuum of space.

    The caveat is harnessing this huge electrical energy source to power ion, photon, electron, and/or any of the proposed electrodynamic-hydrodynamic-plasma drive systems in such a manner that the thrust from such systems would greatly overpower the magnetic breaking effects produced by the coils interaction with the space based ambient magnetic fields. Traditional classical electrodynamicists would say that such is impossible due to the conservative nature of electrodynamic fields.

    I will have more details on this concept to post on site tomorrow.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig October 26, 2008, 14:21

    Hi George;

    It is good to be back on site.

    I had some additional comments regarding very long conducting wire based electrodynamic energy capture and creation mechanisms as they apply to very high gamma factor capable manned interstellar or intergalactic space craft.

    This additional idea, which I just thought about this morning, involves the creation of a wire loop, with conductor length as long as perhaps several light-years that is composed of a very low linear mass density superconducting topological defect in space time.

    Basically, the concept involves the creation of such a defect with simmilar or analagous electrical current conducting properties that the alledged cosmic strings should have. Recall that cosmic strings, in at least some versions, theoretically would be highly conducting if not super-conducting and would carry currents, if I am not mistaken, as high as 10 EXP 20 Amperes if not much greater. Also recall that cosmic strings would have a linear mass density of as much as 10 EXP 15 metric tons per centimeter.

    Some way of producing a cosmic string like topological space time defect with a linear mass density of a carbon nanotube and which is perhaps as much as an arbitary 1,000 LYs in length and wound in a coil like arrangement of circumference of, say, one kilometer could indeed develope tremendous mass specific current and power densities. Once again, the caveat being the ability to violate the traditional classical electrodynamic conservative laws of electro-dynamic fields in such a manner that the electrodynamic propulsion systems of the craft would greatly out-thrust the magnetic breaking effects caused by the magnetic interaction of the current within the loop with the ambient interstellar or intergalactic fields.

    I will have more to say on a topic closely related to this one later today or tomorrow.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 27, 2008, 10:11

    jim my god those cables you mention above are long!! kind of makes me wonder how such things might be manufactured but heck, my first thought is that – if we COULD do such things – then… just by that very fact alot of our problems would be settled anyhow! then,as to the second set of ideas you pose above,i can only lol pretty much repeat my first comment!! JUST INCREDIBLE STUFF! just incredible. respectfuly your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 27, 2008, 21:53

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments and enthusiasm.

    I had some additional ideas regarding harnessing electrodynamic energy from the zero point fields.

    The first concept involves the notion of constructing huge electromagnetic coils in which very effecient and lossless (or almost such) diodes are installed along the lenth of the coil wire in such a manner that electrical current can flow through the cable/diode coil in only one direction.

    Essentially, the spacing of the diodes would by equal to or less than 1/2 of the wavelength of the zero point electromagnetic vacuum field fluctuations that would interact with the cable, if only very weakly. As the electrical field components of the zero point electromagnetic waves adjacent to the cable surface pointed in the direction corresponding to the gradient of the waves’ potential required to produce the unidirectional current, the net electronic charge drift within the cable would result in a net current flow. The idea of having the diodes spaced at distances equal to or less than 1/2 the wavelength of the active zero point frequencies would accordinlgy be required to take advantage of the phase angle of the zero point fields in such a manner that the electrical field component of the zero point waves would push the electrons in the direction of possible current flow through the cable instead of the back and forth motion that typically occures for electric current flow through a typical simple RF or microwave transceiving antenna.

    According to the mathematics on which this concept is based, the smaller the spacing between the diodes, the more power the coil could generate from the zero point fields because of the greater value of active integrated zero point electromagnetic power that could be captured by the coil. This value of active integrated zero point power would have to be increasing with respect to any accumulative losses based on the diodes resistance and other losses.

    Thus, the derivative of the integrated active potential zero point power with respect to the linear density of the number of diodes would need to be greater than zero as expressed in the following equation:

    d [Int (Papzp)]/ d (Nd/L) > 0 where Int (Papzp) and Nd/L are the integrated active potential zero point power and the number of diodes per unit of length of cable respectively.

    For utmost power generating efficiency, the coil would be made of superconducting material and the diodes would be one way superconducting; thus a really exotic form of diode would be required. The caveat is the ability to couple the net electron drift within the conductive conduit to the zero point EM waves.

    I will have more to say on this type of concept in the coming days.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 28, 2008, 14:29

    jim yes sir i can see how much energy would be generated by such an “apperatus” as you describe above! useful for everything and/or anything i am sure! maybe even,lol,spacecraft propulsion i’ll bet!!!! now i will pay you a compliment.do you know how einstein suggested that in order to understand some things it was better to visualize them? well that is what i had to do while reading the above,no kidding. respectfully to one and all as may read this – your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 28, 2008, 14:50

    Hi George;

    I had some additional notions on the above concept of zero point electromagnetic energy collecting electrical cable.

    According to relativistic quantum field theory, the fabric of space and time is granular with the smallest units of space and time being ~ 10 EXP -35 meters and ~ 10 EXP -42 seconds respectively. Calculations of the latent zero point energy density are accordingly as high as 120 orders of magnitude greater than that of the mattergy of the observable universe. Since the critical density of the universe is 3(H EXP 2)/(8πG) = 5 × 10 EXP – 30 grams per cubic centimeter is close to the actual density of the universe, the electromagnetic zero point field energy extractable from the vacuum per cubic meter of space is ~ 5 x (10 EXP 90)(10 EXP 14) Joules = 5 X (10 EXP 104) Joules ~ 10 EXP 35 times the total real mattergy content of the universe for each time step for which the extracted vacuum energy is refreshed.

    Thus, the integral of the total zero point potential electromagnetic energy contained within a cubic meter of space within the zpf photon wavelength limits of infinity to ~ 10 EXP -35 meters is roughly 5 x (10 EXP 104) Joules per refresh time step. Assumming infinitely continuous space and time and no limit on zero point photon energies, the value of the integral of the total zero point potential electromagnetic energy contained within a cubic meter of space is infinite.

    For lossless one way superconducting diodes, d [Int (Papzp)] sup 2 / d sup 2(Nd/L) > 0 where Int (Papzp) and Nd/L are the integrated active potential zero point power and the number of diodes per unit of length of cable respectively and where sup 2 is the notation indicating the second derivative operation. One can see that the zero point photon energy collected as the spacing between the diodes approaches zero assymptotically approaches infinity for infinitely continuous space. For space discreetized at the quantum level, the above second derivative still holds when the diodes are lossless and oneway superconducting.

    If we as a civilization could learn how to produce superconducting topological defects in space time that are quantized at the Planck Space and Planck Time Level, and produce diodes made of the simmilar space time material that are one way superconducting, then we might be able to extract ~ 5 x (10 EXP 104) joules from the vacuum from every cubic meter for every time step in which the potential zero point field energy is recharged from the vacuum state from which it is extracted.

    I will have more to say on this general concept in the days if not hours to come.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig October 29, 2008, 12:02

    Hi George;

    It is good to be back onsite.

    Actually, the electromagnetic zero point field energy extractable from the vacuum per cubic meter of space is ~ 5 x (10 EXP 96)(10 EXP 14) Joules = 5 X (10 EXP 110) Joules ~ 10 EXP 41 times the total real mattergy content of the universe for each time step for which the extracted vacuum energy is refreshed intead of the above previously quoted value of ~ 10 EXP 35 times the total real mattergy content of the observable universe.

    That being said, an interesting concept or refinement of the above idea is an higher dimensional space analogue of the coil. Such a coil could potentially extract 10 EXP 35 times the zero point EM energy from a 4-D cube volume of hyperspace assumming that zero point EM fluctuations occur in such a manner in 4-D space such that the EM energy available in 4-D space relative to that of 3-D space, assumming that both 3-D and 4-D space are quantized at the Planck distance scale, is simply the ratio of the volume of 4-D meter hypercube and the volume of a 3-D normal cube. For higher dimensional space cubes of edge length of one meter, the energy available per unit of time of refresh is equal to [10 EXP 35] EXP (N-3) times the energy available for each refresh time period of a 3-D meter cube volume of space, all other things remaining equal, for N -D higher dimensional space.

    For infinitely continuous space, the energy available within a higher dimensional meter cube of space with edge length equal to 1 meter is (infinity) EXP N where N is the number of dimensions. Thus the energy available in such a case, for each time refresh period, is presumably (Aleph 0) EXP N wherein it is assummed that there is no sub-point divisability of real space.

    However, real space does seem to be quantized and so the infinite values of energy extractable from a finite dimensional one meter cube of real space are likely not to exist, bit rather are simply a calculational result to elucidate the mathematics behind the concept discussed. But in the event that space is somehow infinitely continuous, perhaps as a result of sub-quantum hidden spatial-temporal variable or the sub-planck scale analogue(s), then we might potentially be able to marshall infinite quantities of energy at some very cosmically remote time into the future. Wouldn’t that be great!


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione October 29, 2008, 14:16

    jim you know what you just reminded me of? back when i first found out about the “latent” energy of the zero point field and began a veritable campaign to try to find how this energy could be taped into to power a spacecraft.in fact,alot of what you have said above makes me recall it! as always my friend KEEP UP the great thinking!!!!!!!!!! thank you your friend george

  • James M. Essig October 31, 2008, 13:56

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Yet another concept for capturing zero point electromagnetic field energy envolves the concept of an array or matrix of spring mounted highly conductive if not superconducting Casimar plate based modules wherein the Casimar force produced by unbalanced zero point EM field fluctuations would set the assemblages of plates oscillating in such a manner that inductive or rotor like mechanisms included within each module would cause at least a portion of the kinetic energy of oscillation to be converted to electrical energy and/or heat.

    The plates would receive their oscillatory motion by having their conductivity switched on and off at a natural frequency so as to produce an oscillatory compressive and extension force which would be harnessed by linear induction mechanisms, gears, actuators, drivers, and/or the like.

    The conductivity of the Casimar plates within each module would be switch on and off with as little energy as or less than that required to maintain and change the image of a very low power liquid crystal display.

    Ironically, the development of variable conductive LCD like materials, or something just as simple, might be key to one method of harnessing latent electromagnetic zero point field energy.

    With the production of Casimar plate modules of designs with ever decreased conductive plate seperation, the potential power levels obtained per unit of Casimar plate surface area would increase. To the extent that the plates could somehow be manufactured out of neutron dense or quarkonium dense superconducting material wherein the plates could be smooth enough to allow them to be brought to as close to 10 EXP – 15 meters to perhaps 10 EXP -18 meters from each other, the potential power output of a single module with a surface area of one square meter beomes extremely large.

    I will have more to say on this concept in the comming hours.



  • James M. Essig October 31, 2008, 20:29

    Hi George;

    Its good to be back onsite.

    I had some brief simplified calculations regarding rough estimates of energy extractable by such a Casimar Oscilation Generator.

    Assumming that the Casimar plates are seperated such that an average of 10 EXP – 9 Newtons act on each plate and wherein the average mass of each plate is 10 EXP – 4.5 Kilograms, the acceleration acting on each Casimar plate would be F/M = A = 10 EXP – 4.5 meters/(second EXP 2). Assumming that the plates are accellerated at this rate for 0.001 second, the terminal velocity of the plate would be 10 EXP – 7.5 meters per second and the plate would travel about [(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] meters. This values seem relatively easy assumptions since specific Casimar modules have a large design leeway in terms of performance parameters.

    The terminal kinetic energy of the casimar plate would thus be equal to (F)(d) = (10 EXP – 9)[(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] newtons meters = (10 EXP – 9)[(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] Joules. If all of this energy is converted into electrical energy and/or heat, in about one second, 1,000/4 oscillations = 250 oscillations would occur assumming the time required for the plates to slow, reverse direction, etc, is a factor of 4 greater than the exceleration phase. Thus in one second, 250(10 EXP -9)[(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] Joules could be generated or a power of 250(10 EXP -9)[(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] watts would be generated.

    Assumming that the Casimar plate has a surface area of 0.01 (meters EXP 2), a square kilometer array could generate 25[(10 EXP – 7.5)/4] watts. A cubic kilometer matrix formed from an effective 1,000,000 parallel 1 square kilometer arrays would produce 0.2 Watts, a tiny power output indeed. However, a 10 EXP 12 cubic kilometer matrix could produce 0.2 TeraWatts. A huge 10 EXP 18 cubic kilometer array would produce a whopping 200 PetaWatts or twice the solar energy incident on the Earth; 20,000 times the power output of modern human civilization . The mass of such a Casimar matrix would probably be roughly equal to one solar mass, however, once constructed with future exotic, durable, and nanotechnological self assembly based repairable materials, the system might last effectively forever.

    The beauty of building one such apparatus for every star that exists within the visible universe as long term cosmic engineering projects is the ability to create energy freely, from the vacuum fields. The result is the ability to add real mattergy to the universe in significant quantities over cosmic timeframes, possibly leading to a reduction of the universe’s expansion rate, perhaps avoiding any big rip.

    Perhaps supermassive blackholes can be feed and/or grown by such an apparatus forever. This would be a boone for a cosmic blackhole based wormhole subway system.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione November 1, 2008, 13:07

    jim sure i agree 101% with the development of the use of the energy from the zpf as a way to propel spacecraft!!! a means of propullsion that would be free and evertwhere and one which we would not have to carry on board! we would only need the device for taping in to it! cooool stuff! as i recall nasa’s breakthrough propulsion physics project did at least a study! marc millis the leader of that group also happens to be a member of this group as well! hope he will read this and share his most recent thoughts! also,that black hole subway system is certainly equally cool so naturally i hope that that too will be developed. if only in studies that might represent a first step.lol everybody,please forgive the levity,but, i wonder what a token ONTHAT SUBWAY(!!!) would cost!!!!!!! thank you very much george

  • James M. Essig November 1, 2008, 21:05

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments and levity!

    When ever I take the Washington D.C. Metro subway system downtown, upon entering and traveling through underground portions of the railway grid, I seem to always start imagining wormhole travel, using of all things, blackholes as the hub points for wormholes.

    In the D.C. Metro subway system as I am sure is also the case in other subway systems, upon arrival at a stop and leaving, an electronic voice recording will say, “Doors Opening” and “Doors Closing”. The thought that oneday, such an electronic message could be used in rail cars or their analogue in a wormhole transit system fires my imagination.

    I remember the concept of a space elevator that appeared again in the recent mainstream media as a SCI-TECH story. I can imagine a network of tubes manufactured out of carbon nanotubes linking portions of grid like toriodal living quarters in orbit around the Sun. Perhaps this living quarters could support upwards of 10 EXP 15 humans simultaneously and be duplicated around other G, K, and M class stars. These travel tubes could in theory use linear induction means to electrodynamically capture the energy of “rail cars” that where accellerated to high gamma factors.

    Simmilar systems might be built as toriodal world rings which revolve around the center of galaxies but at an optimal radial distance from the galactic center so as to make effecient resource utilization possible. The potential gamma factors achievable by cars in any such system might dwarf those possible even for a particle accellarator with the radius of the host galaxy due to the much lower charge to mass ratio of relatively electrically neutral “sub way” cars thus limiting Synchrotron Radiation losses from such systems. Talk about a potential time machine into the future, albiet one based on relativistic time dialation.

    Perhaps an ever growing network of such mass driver, electrodynamic, accelerator tubes will eventually be constructed connecting all galaxies within the observable universe and ever further abroad as we explore beyond the current range of the radius of the observable universe at 13. 73 billion lightyears. Mattergy capture and nanotech self assembly means might permit the continual maintenance of such a subway system wherein the constuction materials have sufficient modulus of elasticity and strain capability in order to prevent the system from being pulled apart by spacetime expansion induced forces.

    As some one who still very much enjoys open highway driving, even after having had a drivers license for almost 30 years now, as well as occasional subway trips into D.C., the thought of a blackhole subway systems seems awesome. Even the thought of a mass driver system such as described above more than fires my imagination.

    Thanks again for the enthusiam.

    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione November 2, 2008, 11:40

    jim, LOL !!!! funny you should say! i have not been on the new york subway in a long time and have not been a regular rider for years! but! yes,it always reminded me of worm hole travel from the movies! as for the rest,yes sir! we have alot in front of us!!! hope this site can in some way help to get people fired up! also i hope this part of the site will become more active incredibly for now it looks like the jim and george show!!!! hahahahaha. tnks as alway george

  • James M. Essig November 4, 2008, 1:14

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    I had a most odd idea just within the past minute as I first started viewing this thread tonight.

    Imagine a space based turbine made of some increadibly high tensile strength to wieght ratio material mounted on a friction free bearing such as a magnetic bearing, wherein incident CMBR and/or star light would over large time periods spin up the rotor to an outer circumferential velocity of near C.

    The rotor blades would be manufactured to be one-side reflective wherein the incident CMBR on the reflective side would cause the rotor to rotate. The energy of the rotor would eventially be transfered to the craft via an turbo-electric power conversion to electrodynamic propulsion mechanisn.

    Note, however, that ordinary rotor velocities used in common high rotational velocity machinery could be useful for powering the craft as well.

    Regardless of the maximum rotational velocities possible, as the electrodynamic thrust powered craft would gradually approach C ever more closely, the relative incident energy of the impinging photons would increase. As the craft reached relativistic velocity, relativistic dopplar blue-shifting of the incident CMBR and/or star light would exert more force on the blades due to the increase in ambient photon energy incident on the forward or reflective side of the blade. The relativistic velocity of the craft would increase to yet higher gamma factors which would lead to more pressure being exerted on the turbine and so on.

    The end result may, in the absolute limit, be a runaway acceleration of the craft as it approached C ever more closely.

    An alternative form of the energy harnessing mechanism would utilize a laser, or microwave, or RF frequency beam incident on the conductive side of the blades in the opposite direction of the craft’s velocity vector. As the craft approached C, the rate of momentum transfer from the incident beam to the blades would increase relative to the craft’s reference frame and the blades would receive evermore rotational kinetic energy in the case that the kinetic energy of the rotor was not diverted to power the ships propulsion system.

    The main caveat here is deriving a net velocity increase of the craft in the generally opposite direction to the net velocity vector of the photons impinging on the blades. Thus, appropriate blade angles, blade pitch, and blade adjustability would be required. In short, the momentum of the incident photons would somehow need to not push the craft in the direction of the incident photons giving the operation of the craft’s electrodynamic thrusting mechanisms.

    I will have more to say about this concept later today.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione November 4, 2008, 10:37

    jim as always…yeah good ideas can not fault you…but! when can we build these things/THAT is what makes me wonder! thank you george

  • James M. Essig November 4, 2008, 12:58

    Hi George;

    Thanks very much for the above comments.

    As to when we can build things like the above rotor based propulsion system, I haven’t the fogiest idea. A lot of interstellar and intergalactic propulsion systems depend on what the materials scientists can cook up, as well as newly discovered novel arrangments of electrodynamic and mechanical systems at the level of classical mechanics especially with respect to kinematic arangements that are judiciously made to take advantage of what, by all accounts, would be loopholes within the conservative laws of electromagnetic theory and Newtonian mechanics, if not relativistic classical mechanics and/or relativistic classical electrodynamics. I personally have the feeling that there are a lot of such potential breakthroughs that simply have not been dreamed up yet.

    Regarding additional concepts for the rotor mechanism described above, one might be able to construct the rotors out of very very thin, perhaps as thin as 10 EXP – 15 meters thick to 10 EXP – 18 meters thick neutron dense materials or of quarkonium (e.g., stangelet material) that is somehow superconducting such that the turbine blades could operate under extremely dopplar blue shiftedf CMBR and/or star light as the relative energies of such photons with respect to the blades approached hard gamma ray energy levels. If such photon energies were the result blue shifted CMBR, a gamma factor of, say 10 EXP 12, would push the dopplar shifted wavelength to ~ (0.0019)(10 EXP – 12) meters or roughly 2 femtometers which is on the rough order of the diameter of a typical atomic nucleous. This spectrum might be hard to reflect, however, the incident black body gamma ray power would be enourmous relative to the ship and rotor and might, as a result, permit extremely high accelaration values for the ship.

    Another caveat to such systems with extreme translational velocity based gamma factors is such that the turbine blades would need to be adjustable in order to function properly and in which to optimize the incident power collection. Such extreme gamma factors distort reference frames by relativistic reference frame rotation effects and Lorentz factor based reference frame contraction within the direction of the high gamma factor velocity vectors.

    The really cool possibility of the effects of reference frame rotation and/or any doubly special relativity like breakdowns in the Lorentz tranformation laws for velocities of macroscopic finite rest mass systems that approach C very closely is that of the potential development of bazaar space time distortion and/or transport effects such as those that perhaps produce doorways into other space or spacetime regions, into other dimensions including higher dimensional space or space time, or parallel dimensional space time, into other universes or big bangs altogether, or perhaps into other qualatatively different realms altogether such as those defined by what I will call hidden space time, or hidden special and/or general relativistic variables.

    I will have yet additional material to present on the general rotor concept later today.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig November 4, 2008, 19:24

    Hi George;

    It is great to be back onsite.

    We have a large stuffed turkey baking in the oven and are eager for the election process to finally be over. This election day has taken on great importance in the general publics mind, and as the cliche goes for both the Democratic and Republican parties, “it is time for a change”. I am looking forward greatly to humans returning to the moon by 2020 and then going beyond.

    I had some other concepts related to the rotor powered craft I described above and that is the concept of rotors that extend into higher or parallel dimensional space or which have higher dimensional volumes or perhaps more appropriately, higher dimensional surface areas.

    One can concieve of a rotor energy capture mechanism that would react against any electromagnetic fields traveling through higher and/or parallel dimensional space or against any currently unknown component of electromagetic fields or related phenomenon that occurs in ordinary 4-D space time but which extends into or is otherwise coupled to reactive mechanisms in higher and/or parallel dimensional space time.

    The increase in capture area commensurate with the additional surface area associated with higher dimensional and/or paralell dimensional manifolds can perhaps result in vastly increased power capture due to the much larger quantity of spatial volume or manifold surface area used to capture any such energy.

    Given that the extra 22 spatial dimensions of bosonic string theory, and the 6 or 7 extra dimensions in newer string theory versions, are usually held to be greatly compactified form, with the radii of these dimensions on the order of the Planck Length, ~ 10 EXP – 35 meters, the location of any subset or region within such higher dimensional space may be located very close to any location and every location within the universe of 4-D space time. However, the topological nature of such compactified space time, being that the higher dimensional space time continuum (to use pop culture jargon), has 22, 7,or 6 degrees of additional extention, might still permit vastly more energy to be harnessed than that which could be extracted from the 4-D space time manifold that immeadiately encloses the volume of the traveling craft as it passes through ordinary 4-D space time.

    Any analogue of such a rotor mechanism that extends into, displaces a volume in, or is composed of a manifold within the potentially infinite dimensional space time of the theory of branes could perhaps capture stupendous power incident or casually coupled to the reaction mechanism of such a rotor: with infinite dimensional space, infinite power levels are potentially available even for such volumetric elements with finite linear extent.

    I will have more to say on this concept in the coming hours.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione November 5, 2008, 10:35

    jim thank you very much for the additional concepts above i will look forward to your next comments on these topics. however i do not (unfortunately) see alot of money being earmarked any time soon in the near future for space.most especially such highly theoretical concepts as we discuss here. yet with the change that has just occured at the top certainly no one can take hope away from us! you never know,as we all hope and pray,that big breakthrough might only be -well- just very close.somebodt at princeton university or somewhere might be at this very moment saying – “hey! wait a minute! i just thought of something!” thank you your friend george

  • James M. Essig November 5, 2008, 16:39

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Perhaps the change that took place last night will lead to a “new day” including renewed interest in and efforts in manned space travel.

    I had a rather odd idea as I walked through the entance of the local church I attend after viewing a taped up window that appeared to have been broken but which did not shatter. The window looked as if it was composed of numerous cells defined by a network of cracks much as appears in the break pattern of auto safely class out of which automobile windshields are manufactured, except that the size of the cells defined by cracks in this Church window where much more uniform in surface area although the bounding cracks where more or less of random curvilinear nature.

    The idea that came into my mind within a few minutes after viewing the cracks and cells was that perhaps, the space time at the levels of the Planck distance and Planck time scales are indeed quantized, but perhaps the analogues of the boundaries of these space time cells have a “random curvilinear shape” much like the cracks and cells I observed within the Church window. Morever, perhaps the distribution of the size of the cells of space time has a very small variance wherein the factor of the difference in cell size associated with, say, 100 or perhaps even greater than 200 orders of standard deviation is only slightly larger than one; perhaps at most a factor of 2 or 3. Perhaps there is an upper and lower maximum size to the space time cells such that the distribution curve describing the size of the cells is highly peaked and reaches zero or the x-axis, on an x-y plot, a short distance from the line defining the mean value of the cell size. The size of the cells could be so uniform in consideration of both their maximum and minimum widths interms of each of the linear dimensions that define the size of the cells, as well as the cells “surface areas” and “volumes”.

    The craggly edges of the cells I observed within the window might correspond to sub-quantum, or sub-Planck scale spatial, temporal, or spatial-temporal structure and thus might correspond to the space time foam concept that was popular during the 60s and 70s wherein the foam was composed of randomly fluctuating bubbles, voids, arcs etc. that accordingly range in size from the Planck Distance scale all the way down to infinitesimal in extent. Perhaps the “cracks” defining such cells fluctuate in a random or semi-random manner analogously to the roiling of the space time foam.

    The sub-scale craggly features of the cells, which might not, obviously, be definable in terms of spatial temporal size, may rather represent hidden spatial, hidden temporal, or hidden spatial temporal variables, hidden quantum variables and/or the like.

    I will have more to say on the rotor concept later today since I had skipped that topic to present this topic.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione November 6, 2008, 10:38

    jim yes we can sure hope for the day to dawn on a new era of manned space travel but i’m afraid we will just have to wait and see! does it seem strange to you that this site is RAPIDLY BECOMMING ONLY the jim and george show?? now i know that paul once told me that alot more people read than take part but this is spooky lol ! many times we have tried to encourage others to comment but again,lol, those pleas seem to have fallen on deaf ears! i begin to question the use…sorry. but anyhow,thanks your friend george

  • James M. Essig November 6, 2008, 15:51

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    I definately have to agree with you. This site has become a Jim and George show.

    Anyonw else who views this thread, by all means, feel entirely free to post comments. I do not know what else to say. Feel free to jump in.


    Your Friend Jim

  • Administrator November 6, 2008, 16:15

    Guys, you’re simply running into the limitations of the format here. As I said at the top of this discussion, weblogs are not discussion groups set up for long-term conversation — what happens is that when stories scroll off the main screen, most people simply move on to the next story, reading it and looking for comments there. The upshot is that while I’m glad to have them in our archive, not that many people see these posts.

    Until we have separate forum software in place, it’s becoming clear that the way to sustain long-term conversation on new ideas is at the top of the Web site, and it’s the job of the moderator. In other words, I would suggest trying the same discussion on your weblog, Jim. That way what’s at the top is visible each day, and people can leave comments after each post. Rather than a series of comments that few would see, you would be making a series of weblog posts visible to all readers. The audience would go up significantly in the long term; in the meantime, we hope to have forum software up for reader discussion on Tau Zero some time in the first quarter of 2009.

  • george scaglione November 7, 2008, 10:19

    paul – if i read you correctly things may begin looking up some time in “early” 2009.sounds good hope it comes to pass because as i’ve said it begins to seem beside the point for just jim and i to be the only ones ever here talking about rather advanced subjects that i had hoped alot of others would be eager to jump in on! now…as to your efforts here i can only say THANK YOU VERY MUCH. i do not fail to see that you have choosen to take on extra work pretty much just for the benefit of two die hard space head guys! it is really very kind of you.thank you again.your friend george scaglione