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On the Speculative Edge

The continuing activity on the Practical Positronic Rocket threads has made it clear that we need a place for speculations that do not flow out of particular posts. What we’re aiming at down the road is to implement discussion software that will make such threads easy to follow and contribute to, but for now we’re dealing with weblog software that is not optimized for the task. Hence this thread, which is open to rational theorizing about interstellar issues in comments that do not reflect content found in the posts elsewhere on the site. If your idea is ‘blue sky’ and not related to a particular post, this is the place to put it.

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • James M. Essig July 26, 2008, 13:36

    Speaking of super high energies, it occurred to me a few days ago that perhaps some sort of fermionic based degeneracy pressure like effect might be used to accelerate space craft to extraordinarily high gamma factors almost instantly. The idea would be to somehow produce a lump of matter of exactly the same spin and geometric arrangement of constituent atoms and molecules as an adjacent space craft to be launched wherein, somehow, the effects of the Pauli Exclusion Principle would be made manifest over large macroscopic distances instead of the Angstrom distances or the nucleonic scale distances of atoms and nucleons respectively.

    Perhaps the effect could be made manifest without the atomic and molecular arrangement of the space craft and the lump of matter being identical.

    If the spins of all of the atoms and perhaps of all of the electrons in the shells of the atoms could be temporarily induced to be spin up for both the space craft and lump of matter, thus resulting in a tremendous net spin angular momentum of the two lumps of matter being identical, perhaps a tremendous degeneracy pressure induced acceleration could be made manifest wherein the two opposing lumps of matter would occupy that same or degenerate energy states.

    Another possibility involves using such a reaction mechanism to fire lumps of matter out the back end of a degeneracy pressure rocket or a Pauli Exclusion Principle rocket.

    Now, if the acceleration of the space craft first mentioned above and/or of the rocket could be made equal to that of two electrons that would be in the same energy state or forced to be collocated or almost collocated wherein the electrons would be released and repel each other with all of the intensity of electron degeneracy pressure, we might effectively have a reactionary propelled space craft on steroids. The caveat is getting all of the atoms and electrons in a spin up state without causing the atoms to fly apart or disintegrate. I do not know how to do such. Perhaps if such a state could be produced that is extremely short lived, perhaps in pulsed mode, the desired accelerations and gamma factors could be reached.

    Note that it is electron degeneracy pressure and neutron degeneracy pressure that holds white dwarfs and neutron stars, respectively, up from otherwise immediate collapse.



  • James M. Essig July 26, 2008, 21:19

    Hi Folks;

    A really interesting take on using fermionic degeneracy pressure to propel a space craft with incredible accelerative force might be to somehow utilize the zero point virtual fermionic particle fluctuation wherein a mechanism or state would be made manifest by which each fermion so constituting a space craft and the crew members bodies would be perpetually propelled by tremendous forces commensurate with fermionic degeneracy pressure.

    As a given virtual fermion or fermions react against a given atom and then disappear back into the vacuum, new zero point fermions would be made to continue the process of repulsion followed by the new fermion fluctuations disappearance and the cycle would be repeated over and over again.

    If the zero point fermionic fields can some how be made real, or made to interact with the space craft atoms as if they were real, then we might achieve the dream of virtually unlimited gamma factor sub-c interstellar or intergalactic flight. Any breakdown of special relativity at such high gamma factors, such as manifestations of principles of doubly special relativity whereby the speed of light depends on the frequency of the electromagnetic radiation based on an alleged limit to Lorenz contraction due to the finite fine grained nature of space time based on the Planck Length Unit, just might permit such a craft to accelerate to C.

    I wonder what the craft crew would experience after having inertially accelerated to the long EM wave doubly special relativity lower limit of C which accordingly happens to be the value of C in a vacuum as we now know it. Perhaps the crew would be time dilated to the point where they would extend eternally into the future in one Planck Time unit ship time. Other bazaar spatial-temporal kinematic effects might occur which are beyond the knowledge and language of modern theoretical physics.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione July 27, 2008, 12:13

    jim, wow thank you very interesting posts!!! in the first one you have a good theory on how we might utilize yet another fantastic energy source for space craft propulsion! (lol talk about “blue sky”!).then in the second you seem to touch on one of my “pet theories” – the use of the energy of the zpf.in fact! the best and most well thought out idea i have ever seen posted concerning the zpf. all and all well done. i will look forward to utilizing this new spot on the site in the future.hope it will attract a great many good new ideas from alot of our members. this IS what tau zero is all about in my opinion.and i congratulate paul for having,this,a fine idea! respectfully to one and all, your friend george scaglione

  • James M. Essig July 27, 2008, 16:37

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments and kind words. Hopefully with the commencement of operations of the LHC, we can learn more about the Higgs Fields and their relation to the zero point energy fields.

    It occurred to me to mention the possibility of using gravitons or gravity waves as a means of energy transmission for beamed spacecraft. The idea is a rather basic concept which is not far removed from the vagueness of science fiction, however, the idea of converting a space craft into pure gravitational radiation and then beaming the energy to a remote location wherein the craft would be reassembled is intriguing if only because gravitational energy, in a real sense, is the most raw and pure form of energy that is closest to the general relativistic fabric of space time in characteristics. Moreover, gravitational radiation, at least under normal circumstances is not impeded by any would be obstructions.

    Another idea involves using quantum mechanically entangled beams of gravitons to teleport quantum information such as that which defines a space craft, a human body, or other macroscopic object. If the craft or human body could be transmitted in such a manner, the possibility of disruption free quantum teleportation of macroscopic objects might be possible with perfect fidelity.
    Perhaps entanglement between electromagnetic radiation or photons with gravitons may be of use in facilitating quantum teleportation.

    I have mentioned gravitational radiation as a means of beam energy and information transmission at another Tau Zero thread previously, but I revisit the concept in light of the news of gravitational anomalies in some experimental situations. A really neat idea would be to produce a self propagating space time distortion bubble such as those hypothesized for warp drive except wherein the space time distortion would be self perpetuating without a space craft or machine to continuously generate it. and wherein the speed of propagation of such a disturbance would be much, much greater than the general relativistic limit of C, perhaps even as great as 10 EXP 32 C as the stated absolute limit to the warp drive concept mentioned in Paul’s fascinating article on warp drive at another recent thread.

    I will have more to say on the use of gravitons later this eveing.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig July 27, 2008, 21:58

    Hi George;

    Its good to be back on site. I took a good walk this evening and cleared my mind somewhat.

    It occurred to me this afternoon as I was writing the above post that perhaps laser like beams of gravitons could somehow be directed into the path of an accelerating interstellar space craft wherein the relative energy of the gravitons to the space craft would be increased due to Doppler blue-shifting of the gravitational radiation thus perhaps enhancing the kinetic energy increase for the ship per unit of number of incident gravitons. If the gravitons where attractive, the ship might effectively experience a run away acceleration as it increased in gamma factor and the energy of the incident gravitons relative to the ship was increased by relativistic Doppler blue-shifting.

    Another interesting form of gravitational energy based ship acceleration involves the idea of beams of repulsive gravitons or antigravity versions of gravitons wherein the ship would be pushed forward or repelled by the laser like beam of antigravity gravitons.

    Still another mechanism might entail the forward pull of the ship by incident gravitons of the repulsive antigravity type wherein an effect analogous to the pulling force exerted on a negative index of refraction electromagnetic material by incident EM waves such as is the subject of research and development within the program for novel electromagnetic materials at Duke University and elsewhere would be manifested by exotic types of material out of which the craft could be constructed. Because of the penetrating power of gravitational radiation, perhaps the whole ship could be composed of such exotic material for more uniform acceleration free of tidal forces.

    It is also possible that gravitational waves that do not involve a net force of attraction or repulsion might be used by such a so-called negative gravitational wave index of refraction material like mechanism to pull the ship forward at an increasing rate, and where the ship became relativistic, with an increasing force.

    I will have more to say about graviton propulsion mechanisms tomorrow.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione July 28, 2008, 15:25

    jim thank you you do certainly come up with some novel ideas.and as to them being like sf,well,yeah.but if that is a concept (i mean any of the things you wrote about)that somehow triggers the beginning of something good then …what harm could that do!? i sincerely hope that alot of people will join in on this very challangeing part of the site! gravity drives have always been something that i myself have speculated about,heck,as far back as when cosmos was first on the air! again , i hope we will be joined by alot of people here with lots of their good ideas.you never know! sincerely your friend george ps if you happen to be a first timer here reading this right now and you have a “blue sky” idea for any aspect of spaceflight,then you have found a home – please share it with us today! respectfully to one and all george

  • James M. Essig July 28, 2008, 18:14

    Hi George, Forrest, and other Folks;

    A really interesting form of graviton or gravity wave based propulsion system would perhaps simply be a graviton rocket or gravity wave rocket wherein the momentum carried off by exhausted gravitons or gravity waves would be counterbalanced by ship based momentum gain. If a mechanism were somehow developed to permit perpetual graviton or gravity wave generation, perhaps from the zero point energy fields, perhaps a perpetually accelerating gravity rocket could be developed.

    Another idea involves some hypothetical material that would be attractive to gravitational space time distortion adjacent to and on its forward side and repulsive to gravitational space time distortion adjacent to and on its backward side: a sort of gravitational field sail. Perhaps such a membrane could be composed of ultra high mass specific surface area membranous material and even have a mechanism to enhance the pull and push of gravity just as an electromagnet can be induced to react with more force when placed within a given background magnetic field of non-varying strength wherein the current flowing through the electromagnet coils is increase thereby increasing the strength of the electromagnets field.

    It seem to me that some novel adaptations of electrically superconducting materials might serve to produce such gravity sails, especially given the anomalies associated with gravitation modification experiments involving rotating superconducting plates.


    Your Friend Jim

  • forrest noble July 29, 2008, 14:32

    Jim, George,

    Jim, in my theories the “graviton is simply the only fundamental particle in the zpf and its currents of dark matter (zpf material) the source of all gravity as a pushing force. Accordingly an external ground based device might be developed that might produce a cylindrical gravity current or “updraft” which could assist a space craft which also possesses other propulsion means, to ascend vertically maybe a hundred miles or so with less fuel requirements until by its increased propulsion it could accelerate to the desired speed. This in essence might be called a pushing current developed from air and accompanied by the particles of the zpf aka dark matter.

    Such a device might be developed from a dozen or more increasingly larger circular Laser arrays with an open central area no more than maybe a 100 yards in diameter. These high energy lasers would be pulsed sequentially to produce an upward drafting accelerating cylindrical contained column of air and the accompanying zpf material that would accordingly somewhat counteract the downward forces of gravity. This is a ground based version of the space tunnel which I previously proposed.

    your friend forrest

  • george scaglione July 30, 2008, 10:35

    forrest thank you for those good words as i read them my imagination and memory ran riot! i recall a high school physics teacher mentioning many years ago hahaha like 44! that gravity might indeed be a pushing force according to one theory.boy was he ahead of his time!! he was a great guy from whom i learned alot!!!! we never got to lunch on time ( his class was right before lunch),because many times i would want to talk to him further about an idea the class had given me.like i said he was a great guy. also yes i often think of launching a spacecraft in its first stage by getting it off the ground by means of anti-gravs and then cutting in the main engine from an already reasonable altitude!thank you very much for joining in with these excellent ideas i really got the proverbial “kick” out of them the advanced ideas we discuss here are not exactly afew months away!? but they fit in with the concept of tau zero perfectly.this part of the site was a really great idea from paul and i thank him again! respectfully to all your friend george

  • James M. Essig July 30, 2008, 23:29

    Hi George and Forrest;


    Thanks for the description of the ground based space travel tube. Anything that can allow low cost access to Earth Orbit is cool to me.


    Keep championing the zpfs. I think they are definitely a potentially great way to reach the stars and beyond.

    I had an idea for producing a macroscopic volume of a magnetic or of an electric field on steroids. The idea involves the notion of magnetic flux compression or electric field flux compression wherein a large region of interstellar space would have its real magnetic field or electrical field compressed, perhaps by some sort of chaotic phenomenon based perturbation by which the flux density of the magnetic field or electric field would become highly compressed in an remotely analogous manner in which a small effect of just the right configuration might lead to the production of a hurricane. It is good to note that the energy density of a magnetic field or of an electric field is proportional to the square of the magnetic field strength or electric field strength within a given volume of space.

    A really awesome effect would be to somehow induce zero point magnetic or electrical fields to undergo flux compression, perhaps by chaotic processes, such that the zero point field strength would reach a theoretical limiting value of about 10 EXP 55 Tesla and likewise, an electrical field in a similar manner being induced to have an intensity of 10 EXP 55 or so Volts/Meter. At higher magnetic field and electric field intensities, supposedly, even in a pure vacuum, the field/vacuum structure breaks down into monopoles and other exotic particles. However, if the resulting monopoles can somehow be constricted in number volumetric density, then perhaps monopole fields can be produced with an energy density of many, many orders of magnitude greater than that of a B-field of 10 EXP 55 Tesla and an E-field of 10 EXP 55 V/m.

    To do all of this, some way of manipulating or interacting with the zpf would be necessary. Note that quantum field theory calculations predict that the zpf should have a density 120 orders of magnitude greater than that of the average real mattergy density of our observable universe. If we could somehow access this 120 orders of magnitude greater density, if it exist as such, and compress it many orders of magnitude, we might have undreamed of applications for such technology.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione July 31, 2008, 14:11

    jim,YES of coarse! the major problem is and always had been interacting with the zpf to produce the desired results! i will continue to think about it and sincerely hope that the readers here will also! the very best to you my friend george

  • James M. Essig July 31, 2008, 22:48

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    It occurred to me to mention a space-time travel concept involving travel tubes that actually extend into hyper space, higher dimensional space, parallel dimensional space or parallel higher dimensional space. These tubes I am conjecturing about are essentially mass driver tubes which propel the cars traveling within by electro-dynamic forces such as magnetic fields, electric fields, fermionic degeneracy pressure, or perhaps even by gravitational mass or inertial mass modification effects such as might be producible with novel geometric and kinematic arrangements of superconducting materials.

    The travel tubes I am describing would not technically be wormholes but instead would simply be constructions made of ordinary baryonic atomic matter such as steel, aluminum, steel reinforced concrete, carbon nano-tube materials, graphite fiber aramid composite materials and perhaps even superconducting materials. If more stringent radiation shielding was required such as shielding from free ranging radiation in these alternate dimensions and perhaps from other dangerous space time effects, perhaps the travel tubes could have walls made of neutron dense material such as some type of stabilized neutronium, quarkonium perhaps in the form of strange matter, and the like dense material.

    The car propulsion mechanism might simply be electromagnetic mass driving mechanisms, and perhaps even more ironically, mechanically wheel driven, electric cars that are held in a frictional contact relation with a paved highway located within such tubes, perhaps even a highway paved by none other than cheap asphalt or highway grade concrete under which or within which a magnetic material would be instilled to keep the car glued to the roadway.

    The caveat to all of the above is multifaceted: 1) How to build structures extending into these alternate dimensions, 2) How to maintain the stability and structural integrity of these structures from potentially disruptive space time effects, 3) The extension into these alternate dimensions in such a manner that the distance to remote locations within our universe or to adjacent universes connected by these tubes would be shorter than that provided by ordinary 4-D space time.

    I make the above conjectures in all seriousness although they might seem a little wacky. I just felt I had to mention this concept since I am a die hard fan of roadway driving, especially long trips at night. This remains true even after having driven for almost 30 years. This might seem childish and perhaps it is a little immature, but I love cars. Grins and Giggles!


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 1, 2008, 10:12

    jim, the more ideas we work on the greater the possibility of success!!! keep right on thinking my friend. you never know when the “right pair of eyes” will find something that we have written and say..”hmmmm reminds me of the work i did at princeton two years ago” “maybe if…” etc etc and then my friend we would be as they say,off to the races! once again buddy we are certainly in the right place for all of this! thanks,your friend,george

  • James M. Essig August 3, 2008, 11:02

    Hi Folks;

    I have a theory that the human energy body that certain so-called psychics say that they can travel out of body in and that which persons involved in so-called near death experiences claim to have is simply a body made of a material, perhaps super cooled non-relativistic neutrino material that is produced by the electroweak unification between the electromagnetic force and the weak nuclear force. As one might be aware, the neutrino is the particle with zero electric charge but which interacts with matter through the weak nuclear force reaction. A beam of pure neutrinos can accordingly travel thru light years of lead and remain largely unattenuated.

    My theory in another version is that the material out of which human and extraterrestrial energy bodies are made is composed of photo-neutrinos which would be a hybrid force particle with characteristics of both the electromagnetic photon and the weak force neutrino. My theory would explain why energy bodies appear or at least are reported to pass through material objects by those having near death experiences. Which ever version of my theory is correct, the electroweak unification in physics, the basic form of the theory for which a Nobel Prize was awarded, is the basis for suggesting that super cooled neutrinos, or photo-neutrinos, can interact by electric fields or electronic like fields and thus form the continuous material that energy bodies and auras appear to be made of in the form of aggregates of massive numbers of cooled neutrinos or photo-neutrinos in bound states.

    Alternatively, perhaps some sort of very long half life millicharged fermion might comprise any such energy bodies. One might go on to suggest the possible existence of microcharged, nanocharged, picocharged, etc., particles as the source of such galactic radiation. No attempt is being made to advocate psuedoscience here, but given the anecdotal accounts of so-called energy bodies and the alledged neutrino or cold dark matter qualities of such energy bodies, perhaps another venue for looking for exotic femions might envolve studying the electrodynamics and quantum-electrodynamics of the low intensity energy fields known to be emmitted from human and animal bodies.

    Since these alledged energy bodies seem to float or hover wiegthlessly, one is tempted to think, if they exist at all, that they couple very weakly with gravity at ordinary one Erath G levels, but at the same time have some sort of massive inertial characteristics, for otherwise, they would simply not float around in hospital rooms for several minutes for persons alledgedly having such experiences. Since these energy bodies remain close by to their dead physical bodies, it seems that they are coupled to their spatial temperal environment, perhaps via the local space time fabric by the local Higgs Field. This sounds far out, but we as scientists and space heads should investigate every avenue in our search to understand CDM, HDM, and the like.



  • george scaglione August 3, 2008, 11:30

    jim,whoooooa! is that post ever in the right place!! pretty far out and theoretical.to be frank i do not quite know what to say to you.i always like to take a persons theory and say…well errr ahhh you know,good idea…and you know it occured to me how that point could be used in say space craft propulsion. but here,apologies but i can’t think of much to say! thank you your friend george ps buddy maybe even some clarification might be in order? :) g

  • James M. Essig August 4, 2008, 17:45

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Regarding the possible existence of such energy bodies, I am inclined to think that if they exist, then they might not be identical with the principle or any existent principle that theologians and metaphysics refer to as the soul.

    I get a feeling that if the human soul actually exists, then it is a directly created ex nihilo, spiritual, immortal, incorruptible, simple, non-extended, non-geometric, free, rational, and substantial principle, although my tendency to adhere to such extreme dualist views even puts me at odds with many contemporary theologians who favor a less spiritualist explanation of the human soul.

    My feeling is that the existence of any energy bodies or so-called spirit bodies is defined at least in part by these bodies materiality, thus, I hold that natural effects produce and/or cause such energy bodies to change or evolve during life on Earth or on other planets, and that such bodies in theory could be destroyed by natural forces such as extreme physical temperatures, radiation fluxes, gravitational tidal forces such as near black holes and neutron stars etc., although speaking from a purely philosophical perspective with no intention of trying to convert anyone, perhaps any would be God, prevents or forbids deceased persons from venturing to close to dangerous situations, at least in the normal scheme of things.

    Now if this super cooled neutrino material, photo neutrino material, milli-charged, micro-charged etc., material, or whatever energy body material exists, then perhaps inanimate bulk forms of such material can be created artificially. Perhaps as some level, any such bulk materials can occupy the same space at the same time or be in the same energy state thus perhaps allowing the materials so comprising the bulk material to be volumetrically layered in such a manner that very dense forms of such materials can be produced, perhaps materials as such with the density of white dwarfs, neutron stars, quark nuggets, and perhaps even black holes.

    If such material exists and/or can be artificially produced, perhaps such material can travel faster than light, or perhaps mechanical deformations, so-called acoustic vibrations, or other effects can propagate through such bulk material faster than light with obvious implications for manned interstellar space craft.

    I will have more to say on these concepts tonight or tomorrow.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 5, 2008, 15:15

    WHOAAAA wait a minute jim,just did a fast re read of the last parts of your last posting… are you saying that!??? these materials if we could learn to produce them,could somehow be incorporated into or used for the buildig of ftl spacecraft!!!!!!!?but wow talk about technology that is lol ,not “just around the corner”! respectfully buddy, your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 5, 2008, 18:15

    Hi George;

    Another possibility for the nature of materials out of which any existent energy bodies could be made of involves the concept that perhaps at the level of thermodynamic, electrochemical, or electro-dynamic activity energy events and complexity that occurs within human, animal, or and ETI bodies, a sort of residue is built up over time as a result of some impression left by the thermodynamic states as such, in fact wherein each thermodynamic state leaves a spatial-temporal impression of its previous existence. Accordingly, the energy body would be gradually built up by the layered or aggregated bound state or state of cohesion by each such impression. The number of possible impressions would be huge since the number of quantum thermodynamic states that a human body acquires in just one year is tremendous, if fact, many orders of magnitude greater than the number of electrons and quarks that make of the atoms of a given human body. This might explain the pseudo-scientific notion that the energy bodies are made of a much more tenuous or refined kind of material than the baryonic matter out of which our physical bodies are made.

    Perhaps the energy body is made of past states as such wherein each thermodynamic event that leaves a memory that composes, in part, energy bodies actually exist in the past as a real event even though the human energy body, if the pseudo-science has any truth to it, exist as a concrete item within the present. Thus, the past so-called “memory layers” would conserve the information of the past thermodynamic states and indeed the spatial temporal residues of such states within the present state of the energy body. The energy body accordingly would be built up from residues that exist in the past or at least have some extension into the past from the present.

    It might be the case that the inter-relation of adjacent individual quantum thermodynamic events composing any such energy bodies are much more important in determining the shape of the energy body than the random position changes that a given human or ETI body experiences as the person goes about their day to day living activities. If the relative positions of the arms, legs or head, for example, of the physical body where most important in producing the thermodynamic event residues that might produce an energy body or modify it, then the human and ETI energy bodies would seem, philosophically, to exist as some smeared out amorphous blob rather than having a distinct shape the people who experience so-called out of body near death experiences recognize as the forms of their deceased loved ones, friends, and acquaintances.

    If such energy bodies exist, and are naturally produced and/or modified, it begs the question as to whether inanimate forms of material of the same kind can be artificially produced for space craft or transport construction and whether of not there exist whole unexplored material realms or universes made of such material.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 6, 2008, 9:21

    jim yes this is getting more interesting as you continue to expand upon the concepts.but still…it is all to say the least…very very advanced stuff which i do not think (no offense) that we could accomplish any time soon.thank you again your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 6, 2008, 13:00

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Given trillions if not quadrillions of years of materials science evolution, I can only dream of the types of materials that might be produced. However, you are absolutely correct about the above conjectured materials not being designable any time soon.

    On a more down to Earth note, I viewed Popular Science’s Website wherein an article about the so-called Area-51 Airforce base was posted. The article was surprisingly down to Earth, without any mention of so-called crashed UFO reverse engineering and other almost occult like myths. They did mention the apparent resumption of flights of the alleged Aurora hypersonic vehicle after a decade of non-activity, perhaps a new and improved version of the vehicle. The vehicle may be powered by pulse jet detonation or combustion of hydrogen or methane, or perhaps some allegedly superior fuel.

    Anecdotal accounts by chance observations of this craft in near edge of space flight have put the craft velocity as high as about 36,000 MPH or twice that of low Earth orbital velocity. The craft would, as a result, need aerodynamic effects to keep it from flying out of Earth’s gravity well.

    I don’t view any jet powered or rocket powered craft secret test flights as at all conspiratory, it is just the Airforce doing its job given the global threat of James Bond type evil terrorists organizations. I am in favor of a strong defense, although, I would like to see any hypersonic jet or rocket technologies being tested, evaluated, or deveoped at this airbase also be used for peaceful low Earth orbit access so that we can build the potentially awesome fusion rocket space craft that could take us to our nearby stellar nieghbors, hopefully with launch dates by the second half of this century if not sooner.

    Note that I will have more to say about energy body material later today.


    Your Friend Jim

  • forrest noble August 6, 2008, 19:56

    Jim, George

    The following two abstract excerpts were taken out of context from the related

    Abstract: “Ion- Plasma containment device:”

    A plasma containment device having separate means for repelling positive ions and for repelling electrons from the walls of the plasma chamber. The electrons would be repelled from the central portion of the chamber by a sufficiently strong magnetic field. However, the positive ions which are little affected by the magnetic field are repelled from the walls of the chamber by making the walls of an insulating material which charges positively by impact of a few of the positive ions. The chamber has two end portions, one of which includes an ion generator and accelerator which tends to repel electrons, the other end portion is provided with an electron repeller. On the other hand, the positive ions are kept out of the end portions of the chamber by the positive charge on the walls thereof.” Proto-type funds are being solicited.

    Abstract. “A computer simulation and analytical theory revealed unexpected metastable properties of a classical Coulomb plasma:”

    The results of a multiple ion particle system simulation predicts the possible existence of a metastable plasma state, supercooled with respect to its ionization degree. The three-body recombination forces in this state would be suppressed. The existence of such a plasma state would be the consequence of the entropy conservation in an isolated systems free from any stochastic external interactions.. The occurrence of such a metastable supercooled plasma (rather similar to a supercooled highly compressed vapor) depends on two conditions: First, that all the charged particles behave according to the laws of classical mechanics. Second, the plasma ionization degree should be sufficiently high (> 10-3). It is shown from thermodynamic considerations that a mixture of supercooled plasma with an ideal supercooled ionized gas(es) might be maintained as a metastable plasmoid requiring a relatively small continuous energy input to maintain its plasmoid state. Proto-type funds are being solicited.

    My personal speculation: If both of these technologies are perfected, I believe that their combined use could increase the fuel capacity of a craft by factors from two to as much as twenty times current fuel capacity capabilities. Aircraft/ space-craft might fly 20 times further and 5 times faster on a tank of hydrogen and oxygen, with a hybrid plasma ion expansion and combustion engine. The related possibility of a relatively low weight vehicle might easily fly into orbit with a relatively big payload due to the greatly reduced weight of fuel containment. You could retro-rocket down slowly like an airplane without a heat shield (reducing the weight and re-entry risks). Seemingly a craft could fly to the space station or moon, “hook-up” a larger fuel system (or use a larger space-built craft ) and fly to mars and back in lets say as little as two months flying time with this new technology.

    Cryogenic ion-gas plasmoid technology, if valid, someday could be used for fusion rocket technology or even electric power generation stations.

    Your friend forrest

  • James M. Essig August 7, 2008, 0:09

    Hi Forrest;

    A really interesting set of comments. Any new technology that cuts the travel time to Mars by a factor of 3 is valuable.


    I had some additional comments regarding energy body material.

    Perhaps the physical thermodynamic states of the human body interact with, aid in the production of, or otherwise modify the zero point mattergy fields in such a manner that the zero point mattergy fields are incorporated in part into any existent energy bodies. It might even be the case that any energy bodies are built up from residues or shadow presences of such zpf fluctuations in much the same manner as the conjectured similar process involving real mattergy quantum thermodynamic and/or small scale classical dynamic states might. These zpf thermodynamic states might also be partially or fully linked to the past or exist in the past, or be partially or fully extended into the past from the present state of any energy bodies.

    Another possibility is that the energy body might be composed of parallel history or parallel world layers of quantum level thermodynamic states and/or small scale classical level dynamic states. The operational mechanism as such may either be parallel layers of global aggregate states as such, parallel history or parallel worlds layers of large sub set portions of such global states, and/or parallel layers of quantum level thermodynamic states and/or small scale classical level thermodynamic states. Such parallel history or world states might involve the states as such within the zpf fluctuations and/or real mattergy fluctuations. Another option is that any of these parallel states might involve past parallel state residues or shadows in manners similar to the above speculations on past influences or residues from the one world version.

    All of these various conjectures of the formation of any energy bodies might not be mutually exclusive, but rather might be complementary explanations or different aspects of the same underlying global phenomena leading to any energy body formation or evolution.

    I just wish I could ask any scientists from any 10 billion year old ETI intergalactic space faring civilizations questions regarding the above conjectures. If the ETI could not answer such questions, I would love to ask any pure spirits or angels questions related to the above conjectures. I would love to spend days talking with such beings about this stuff.

    I will have yet more comments regarding the concept of energy bodies and inanimate energy body materials tomorrow after I get some sleep.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 7, 2008, 23:36

    Hi George and Forrest;

    I continue my comments on energy body material with a conjecture as to whether or not any artificially manufactured inanimate energy body like material could be created by artificial culture from physical organisms such a plants, vats of bacteria, algae, or fungi, or live-stock in forms that are optimized to produce energy body like material. Perhaps any conditions by which any human energy body material is produced could be duplicated by micro-electronic or nano-electronic, or micro or nano-scale mechanical, electromechanical, or electro-chemical-mechanical systems.

    If such material can be created and produced in dense enough form, perhaps it can be used as an energy source or for the construction of civil infrastructure and transport systems for a future galactic or extragalactic human civilization. If any energy bodies form without the depletion of real particle and zpf virtual energy from the baryonic, CDM, or Dark Energy forms of such within our universe or other universes, perhaps this situation can imply the creation of mattergy in the form of energy body material from essentially nothing, in other words, imply an eternal and ultimate free lunch in terms of construction materials for an ever expanding human civilization and the required infrastructure including interstellar and intergalactic transportation systems.

    If energy body material can be produced out of normal matter, be the normal matter baryonic matter, CDM, or super-symmetric matter particles, could an antimatter energy body material form exist wherein interaction between a sample of normal energy body like material with that of an antimatter version of energy body like material result in Fermi-Dirac annihilation thus leading to the possibility of producing inanimate energy body matter and inanimate energy body antimatter for use as compact high density energy storage mechanisms perhaps to power interstellar manned space craft. If this material could essentially be created out of nothing i.e., without conversion of normal mattergy or normal anti-mattergy into it, we might have an ultimate free lunch to power human civilization eternally into the future.

    I will have more to say about the these speculative concepts of energy body material in the coming days.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 8, 2008, 9:37

    Hi Folks;

    If it turns out that Earth is unique in the galaxy, perhaps unique in the observable universe and perhaps beyond, this would be a profound mystery. For those of religious inclination, we would ask could God have created us as uniquely rational persons with spiritual and immortal souls and bodies which include wonderfully complex and powerful brains. For those of us who do not believe in a God, we could ask what is the mysterious purpose for our existence and why does anything bother to exist at all, and why do mathematical objects bother to exist. For those of us who believe that the cosmos is the ultimate reality and has some kind of raw consciousness to it, we could ask if we are really so special so as to be so nurtured by mother nature.

    Finding that we are alone in the cosmos as intelligent bodily life forms would give us a great pro-life responsibility to reach out into the cosmos or to radiate out into the cosmos, ever perpetuating and ever spreading our intelligent life form throughout the cosmos.

    If we found no bodily ETI life forms after trillions of years of looking, would we some how discover any conscious soul-like component of our universe and learn to interact, or intimately communicate with it? What about the same for any other universes?

    Not to try to convert anyone here, even though I am a conservative Catholic middle-aged man who believes in the existence of a God that is totally distinct from the cosmos and that somehow created or creates the cosmos, I am open minded to the notion that this same God, in his would be unlimited creative powers, might have created and given souls to each universe.

    Modern theoretical physics has emphasized simplicity as the mantra in theoretical principles, but perhaps we will find that we need to temper this paradigm with the notion that the cosmos is inherently rich and diverse.

    Even if ETI bodily life is rare or non-existent, I think humanity still has more than enough reasons to reach out and explore in an attempt to find any kindred bodily ETI, and perhaps to explore and see if the universe itself or other universes have any message to give us. In this ultra fast paced world in which even indigenous tribal peoples in developing countries have ubiquitous access to modern cell phones, we are bombarded by tons of spurious information, and we long for a deeper meaning in life. We are some what lonely and this loneliness, I believe, will be enough of a motivator for us to look ever further out for any bodily ETI, and even attempt to some how communicate with any soul of the universe or souls of universes.



  • James M. Essig August 8, 2008, 21:29

    George and Forrest;

    I had some additional comments regarding artificially produced energy body material.

    The first comment is in regards to the energy storage density of any such energy body material. Could it be that such energy body materials actually have a mass that is less than, equal to, greater than, or much, much greater than E/[C EXP 2]. If energy body material has mass, could its latent energy be equal to E = f(E) + M[C EXP 2] or E = f(E){M[C EXP 2]} where f(E) is a nomial, polynomial, series, product, exponential, transcendental, trigonometric, complex, and/or the like function in whole or in part and wherein the value of f(E) might range from much, much less than unity to much, much greater than unity.

    It might be the case that any energy body materials are a great energy storage mechanism that does not have mass, in other words, an energy equivalency that does not involve mass. Perhaps this energy exists as and/or can be converted into electromagnetic, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and/or gravitational energy and/or any associated fermions. Alternatively, perhaps energy body material can be converted into super-symmetic bosonic energy such as sleptonic, squarkonic, or sneutrinic energy and/or the associated super-symmetric fermions. I ask the reader to excuse the three latter apparent cases of creative lexocography.

    Or perhaps any energy body materials can be converted into unknown types of physically operational energy such as negative energy, imaginary energy, and/or other types of energy that we have not yet developed the lexicography and scientific processes to mathematically explain or intuit.

    If energy body material has no mass, might it as a result, not effect the curvature of space time. Alternatively, perhaps energy body material affects space time in unknown types of ways. My intuition leads me to believe that because of the unity of nature and the apparent geometrical spatial shape of energy bodies as they are reported to exist by those having near death experiences, they do effect general relativistic space time curvature and can be effected by such.

    I seem to be enamored by the concept of energy bodies and artificially produced energy body materials and will have yet additional comments on the subject in the coming days.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 9, 2008, 15:28

    Hi George and Forrest;

    An interesting idea occurred to me regarding high gamma factor travel and special relativistic reference frame rotation and distortion. Basically the idea involves any kinematics effects of a high gamma factor manned spacecraft with respect to a background reference frame such as Earth, the interstellar gas, the CMBR, and interstellar magnetic fields and the like.

    I would like to conjecture that such special relativistic reference frame rotation or distortion might somehow be used by a manned interstellar space craft to facilitate its travel through space or space-time. Perhaps such an effect can be used to cause a space craft to enter into some sort of time warp, space warp, or other geometric distortion of space or space time.

    Since experiments with super-conducting plates rotating at high angular velocities have produced some anomalies possibly pointing to electro-gravatic effects, perhaps novel geometrical arrangements and motions of super-conducting materials can be incorporated into manned high gamma factor space craft in such a way so as to produce novel space or space-time warp effects or other space-time topological distortions via electro-gravatic effects or other electro-spatial or electro-spatial-temporal effects.

    Some novel effects might be produced by fluid transport mechanisms whereby any conceivable liquid super-conducting material could be made to flow in any imaginable path through appropriate conduits.

    Antimatter versions of such above novel geometrical arrangements and motions of super-conducting materials as well as of any liquid superconductors in concert with or independently of normal matter versions of such super-conducting materials might produce synergistic effects or produce novel effects based on any matter antimatter asymmetry.

    It may even be possible that such kinematics effects can be used to cause the craft to enter into some other spatial-temporal dimensionality or perhaps even some non-spatial or non-spatial-temporal but space-like, time-like, or spatial-temporal bazaar realm.

    On a more down to Earth note, with the planned test of the Vasimir Engine on the ISS, I say let the real fun of venturing out into the solar system and beyond begin. In the spirit of Tau Zero, I say “To The Stars”


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 13, 2008, 10:33

    jim forrest you know i was looking at a report about the universe yesterday and they covered a great deal about the vast unknowns we have to deal with in space i.e. dark energy and dark matter.well,as jim would say and lol probably will…in all of this there to my mind guys,just HAS TO be tons of energy that a space craft could tap into and use as one heck of a power source to get it moving to who knows what velocioties!? also the new experiments going to the iss should be very promising too! just read a sf book where aliens used something like that to achieve .94 c !! what do you think of that jim? what do you think of that forrest? i was amazed because i had never thought of it that way.i mean there might be better ways but (and pardon the bad english) – but if we don’t got em then i will gladly “settle” for something that is actually IN THE WORKS right now!!! wonder how soon said experiments will be under way? can anybody tell me?……and paul,i’d be happy to get your coments on any or all of the above too! respectfuly guys,and hopeing to hear real soon,your friend george

  • forrest noble August 13, 2008, 21:42

    Hey Jim, George

    I know we’re all enthused about the possibility that Vasimr technology will be the ticket for manned spacecraft to go out and about.

    George, as we have discussed before the greater the speed of a spacecraft the more vulnerable it will be to damage by space matter. Even small intergalactic molecules or even atoms could be a problem at great speeds. I believe that even with the best shielding the greatest possible speeds might be only maybe .1C unless the zpf (dark matter) could be somehow depleted in front of the craft or other non-conventional mode (such as Jim’s ideas above) of bypassing this medium. The problem is that of molecular disintegration due to high-speed contact with the zpf.

    your friend forrest

  • James M. Essig August 13, 2008, 22:23

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments.

    Space may have fantastic latent energy.

    A strange idea occurred to me today, I think for the first time in its currently mentally articulated form, which involves the notion of producing so-called space-time foam and somehow using it as a reaction mass or reaction mattergy for lack of a better word. The space time foam would somehow be ejected out the back end of a transport or into an adjacent space time dimensionality wherein thrust would result for the rocket craft powered by such a mechanism. The mechanism might in some remotely analogous manner be related to the concept of using space time stress states such as warp drive or even gravity wave propulsion, perhaps even gravity wave rockets.

    I will have more to say on space time foam based propulsion systems in the coming days but will present below a very brief overview of the concept of space time foam for those who are unfamiliar to the concept which was especially popular during the mid to late 1970s.

    The notion of space time foam and the phrase itself which is more of a layman’s noun for the undifferentiated space-time material out of which the Big Bang allegedly formed was very popular in the 1970s. Accordingly, the space time foam was a raw undifferentiated seething fluctuating bubbly froth of the material out of which space-time is formed and which is allegedly composed of a roiling throth of bubbles, cavities, arcs of all manner of size and duration from the Planck Length and Planck Time (~ 10 EXP – 35 meters and 10 EXP – 43 seconds respectively) all the way down to literally infinitesimal size and duration. The existence of such foam was argued from the finite size of the fine grained structure of space and time as we know it below which would entail a discontinuous undifferentiatable random foam like structure. The concept of space-time foam grew out of earlier attempts to reconcile the notions of finite granularity of space time and the various aspects of quantum field theory such as quantum electrodynamics.

    More current forms of the concept of space time fabric involve string theory, the theory of branes (for membrane structures), loop quantum gravity, and other theories, although, in some of these theories seem to be different ways of casting the same concepts, for example, the theories incorporated into M-Theory.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 14, 2008, 9:54

    forrest,jim, yes sir forrest this new technology looks real good and highly promising. and yes we will have a need to sweep space in front of a fast moving starship! they incorporated an idea like that even into star treks enterprise design even back in 1966!!! but 1% of c seems a let down after seeing the figure 94% quoted! although ha ha the guys in the book where pretty advanced aliens who preumeably knew alot of things we do not yet. bypassing yes is a great concept but not so easy though ! i just think that the vasimr tech now actually BEING built studied etc etc is cooler than hypotetical ideas for the future that we are not near ready to impliment yet. i agree with you in hopeing they move it along at a good pace!! … jim, great ideas about using the space time foam for propulsion! a bit ago,maybe before i met you guys i was constantly talking about something like that on line to the point i was afraid i was beginning to bore people! lol. and yes it has occured to me too that sometimes many theories seem to be closely related…but as i started out… YES there just have to be ALOT of ways to take advantage of the nature of space to propel a space craft!!!!! it is always a pleasure to speak with both of you and i hope that i will hear again soon. your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 14, 2008, 12:34

    Hi George and Forrest;

    Forrest, thanks for the above comments.

    Regarding space time foam propulsion systems, an additional notion occurred to me involving the notion of storing space time foam in some sort of matter, mattergy, energy, or space time fabric container wherein the space time foam would be converted into usable energy via some sort of space time/ mattergy equivalence principle. Perhaps appropriate space time foams would have tremendous energy density or tremendous latent energy density, but display little or no inertia or mass in their raw form. Thus, perhaps tremendous supplies of energy might be carried on board a space craft allowing essentially unlimited gamma factors, and/or warp drive speed, wormhole production, teleportation, or perhaps even inertial faster than light travel through ordinary space time.

    With such high energy densities and any raw harnessable space time foam, the possibility of travel into higher dimensional space-time, parallel dimensional space-time, time travel, and travel of cosmic distances in space and/or time may present itself.

    Another option is that artificially produced space time foam might be used to engineer and construct, perhaps essentially from scratch, space time structures such as the production of new universes from big bangs, the construction of macroscopic space time volumes from scratch, differential volume by differential volume, and perhaps even craft somehow made of space time foam or space time fabric engineered and constructed via space time foam.

    Perhaps the space time foam has qualities such that only a miniscule amount of the stuff can be used to create an entire universe wherein the net space time/mattergy of the initial precursor space time foam seed would result in a perhaps infinite amount of positive energy and an infinite amount of negative each, both ever increasing and boot-strapping each other into ever greater quantities, wherein the net energy would be zero or close to zero in much the same manner that many Big Bang theories postulate the birth of the universe from essentially zero or at least a relatively small quantity of net energy. In such big bang theories, the negative and the positive energy taken together cancel each other out or nearly do so.

    I will have more to say about space time foam concepts latter this week.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 14, 2008, 20:14

    Hi George and Forrest;

    A really odd kind of reactionary propulsion space craft, perhaps a space craft as such being on the ultimate steroids, might entail some how, in some almost impossibly distant future, a propulsion mechanism utilizing the formation of big bangs to propel a space craft to exactly C in an instant. Perhaps if the laws of special relativity turn out to inviolately true in terms of the requirement of an infinite quantity of energy required to accelerate a space craft inertially to exactly C, then perhaps a series of Big Bang pulses wherein each pulse produces an infinite quantity of energy, say Aleph 0 joules, could accelerate the craft beyond C inertially through space. Perhaps an Aleph 0 number of such pulses would result in the space craft traveling an infinite number of light-years per second, back ground reference frame, and who knows how quickly ships frame.

    If a universe or Big Bang could be duplicated wherein each Big Bang pulse released an Aleph 1 cardinality of Joules instantly, perhaps the first pulse would set the craft’s inertial velocity of Aleph 0 light years per Planck Time unit of 10 EXP – 35 seconds background reference frame.

    A much more down to Earth concept would be to use the Big Bangs expanding space time bubble as some sort of warp drive mechanism based on inflation or other space time expansion effects thus permitting extreme superluminal velocities without infinite energies. If such universes could be artificially produced and then made to disappear back into the vacuum state, zero point fields, scalar fields of chaotic inflationary theory, or whatever, wherein the universes as such would accelerate the space craft to extreme superluminal velocities and then be detached or decoupled form the space craft after expansion to roughly the size of the space craft, thereupon, collapsing back into the vacuum from which they arose or were produced, then perhaps warp factor infinity could be achieved.

    Now this may sound extreme, but what if mankind is able to evolve and acquire ever more advanced technology, science, philosophy, mathematics, and intellect, etc., over the next say google-plex years or (10 EXP 100) EXP (10 EXP 100) years or more? Part of my reason for making this conjecture is serious fun but also to promote a “What if… ?” thinking in the mind of the readers of this posting to spur them on to envision the currently impossible: an attempt to shock the readers into saying to him or her selves, we just have to continue to break boundaries and go ever boldly and beyond where no man, and perhaps, no ETI has gone before.

    With the negative news as of late of Wars and Rumors of Wars, especially between Russia and Georgia, I invite each and every reader of the posting, how ever goofy it may seem to you to work for a Civilization of Love. In the eternal scheme of things, I am a firm believer that all things are possible.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 14, 2008, 21:34

    jim,i am glad you keep posting the big ideas and concepts they are good for everyone to see and read and just might,who knows -kick something off by getting the ball rolling when somebody actually says… “jim had a good idea (concept) there and i think it could be done if …” then we would really be getting someplace. i hope for the same and i know it could be triggered by forrest just as easily.lol mostly my only concern about this place is that it is pretty much exclusively the jim george and forrest show!! respectfully your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 15, 2008, 14:11

    Hi George and Forrest and Other Folks;

    George, thanks for the above comments.

    By the way, any other folks who visit this thread feel free to comment also. Whether you are a PhD, Post Doc, an engineer working in industry, an undergrad college student, a grade school student, male or female, it doesn’t matter. Post your valuable insights at this thread. This endeavor to reach for the stars is humanities endeavor and we can all play an invaluable role in facilitating this great mission. When you post comments here at Tau Zero, your comments become part of a permanent archive of information that folks hundreds and even thousands of years plus, into the future, will be able to read.

    Each one of us can do his or her part in facilitating manned interstellar travel. For those of you who have space travel concepts but who do not have any training in physics or mathematics, your comments can be invaluable to the cause. For you science fiction writers who have not worked in the industrial fields of physics and engineering, I make the obvious point of Jules Verne’s works in the 19th century about the manned lunar missions and also the story of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea. And what did we have about a century later, the First Nuclear Powered Naval submarine named the Nautilus and the Apollo program. I somehow do not think that even Maxwell or the Wright Brothers really anticipated these developments.

    Feel entirely free to comment and to dream the dream of Centauri Dreams.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 15, 2008, 20:24

    Hi George, Forrest and Other Folks;

    It occurred to me to discuss the concept of measure or volume of the space time foam contents of a container that would somehow contain space time foam.

    If the space time fabric of our universe is not defined at a level below the Planck Length or the Planck Time, what metrics would we use to describe a so-called differential volume of space time foam with a space time volume with would be linear dimensions below the Planck Length and Planck Time.

    Would one linear dimension be indistinguishable from the others? If a space-time metric can be used to describe space time foam, perhaps the number of space time dimensions as such is greater than 3 of space and 1 of time. It might even be the case that the number of spatial dimensions is huge as well as perhaps the number of time dimensions, perhaps even infinite.

    Now many relativistic quantum field theorists might scoff at the above speculations, but if we get to the point where we are able to handle, store, and manufacture space time foam, all of the above questions will need to be answered perhaps if only for the sake of safety.

    Another option is that there might be two or more complementary sets of metrics describing the volume of such stored space time foam. On the one hand, the definition of a macroscopic volume or even a much smaller sub-Planck scale volume might be described by the usual space time metrics for useful industrial computational and measurement purposes, while at another level, the difference between otherwise separate dimensions including perhaps that between space and time might be blurred, not simply in an observational manner, but also in a real manner analogous to the uncertainty principle describing the relation between the uncertainty in momentum and location and of time and energy. The integrity of space and time as we know it in the macroscopic sense might be scrambled and a randomly roiling manner. Space might become time like and time might become space like. Another analogous duality that comes to mind is the wave/particle duality that describes quantum level phenomenon wherein a object appears wave like or particle like depending on the observational processed performed.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 16, 2008, 14:07

    jim just read the first of your 2 comments above,good going!! brilliant!!! i can only state to the same audience,yes he is 101% correct.go ahead and have your say i don’t care if you are a dr. of physics or a 5th grader!!! …….also i do like your ideas immediately above.you point out the degree of ENGINEERING that still lies in front of us! so i say to that hypotetical 5th grader i mentioned above – go ahead and type out your idea.the most brilliant people on earth today do not yet have a handle on these things,your concept will be as valuable as anyone elses! the very best,your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 24, 2008, 6:50

    Hi George;

    It is great to be back at “On the Speculative Edge”. Thanks for the above comments.

    It occurred to me that if space time foam exists and is not simply an artifact of mathematical calculations or of philosophical notions, assuming that the space time foam has a sub Planck Scale composition, perhaps there is some sort of atomization, for lack of a better word, to the sub-Planck scale of any space time foam. Perhaps the level of atomization or sub-quantization occurs at such a small level that there is an ensemble or perhaps even an infinite number of components to a differential volumetric portion of space time foam of volume [(10 EXP -35) meters] EXP 3 or {[(10 EXP -35) meters] EXP 3}(10 EXP – 43 Seconds).

    Such a fine grained atomistic structure to space time foam might or might not be classifiable in terms of space and/or time because by current definition of space and/or time, such sub-Planck spatial and/or temporal extension has no meaning. Perhaps there is an embedded structure of space and/or time at or below the Planck levels that remains at least normally inaccessible or non-communicative to super-Planck scale realities. Such a sub-Planck scale reality might be identical or somehow related to any very small scale existent hidden quantum variables.

    On analogous concept that come to mind in describing any such non spatial and/or non temporal sub-Planck scale composition is simply the concept of an abstract mathematical set. We are all familiar with basic set theory especially with regard to the roster set of integers, whole numbers, real numbers, irrational numbers and the like yet we do not say that the set containing any subset of these numbers has a spatial, temporal. or spatial-temporal extent or volume.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 24, 2008, 11:40

    Hi George;

    There is a very interesting article on quantum entanglement observed over a distance of 18 km at the below URL.


    The seemingly entangled state of photons wherein the effects of entanglement occur at least 10,000 times faster than light begs the question as to whether quantum teleportation of the quantum states that define macroscopic objects such as human bodies or transport craft can be teleported in such a manner wherein the conscious identity of the human person would be transported along with the teleported quantum information defining his or her body. If such could be accomplished over cosmic distances, I say more power to the astronautics folks and quantum mechanicists who would develop this technology. However, I would not anticipate such happening any time soon, but it is never to early to start the preliminary physics theory tinkerings that might underpin such a technology.

    Another possibility is that the quantum entanglement effect is an illusion and that relativity theory is in no way violated. Could it be that so-called entangled particles have internal clocks that tick at the exact same speed even when the particles are traveling at different relativistic velocities? Perhaps each such would be entangled particle has an internal clock that somehow effects its ability to take on a certain state that is observation dependent and which is not effected all by relativistic time dilation, either in the special relativistic sense nor the general relativistic sense such as by gravitational field induced time dilation.

    Einstein was so uncomfortable with the idea that spooky action at a distance could occur that perhaps we need to consider the concept of hidden quantum variables such as this idea for a universal time piece or clock within so-called entangled particles.

    Either way, the physics should prove interesting to further investigate as well as the development of any new necessary paradigms to explain these fascinating experimental results.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 25, 2008, 13:10

    jim…yes good to see you back! and thank you for the above two comments! as to the first one… YES if the space time foam is not just an artifact and such a fantastically fine grained structure does indeed exist – then… fantastic is too weak a word to cover it,we would have there something NEW that would easily lead us to god alone knows what new avenues of physics!!! now as to that second posting – you are right it is never too early to start,as a matter of fact i saw michio kaku just last night (on tv) discussing just exactly subjects like quantum entanglement and transporting! dr kaku has a great science series (in six parts) currently running on the science channel every sunday night at nine o’clock. i missed part one but i have seen two and three and expect to be front and center for four five and six! also the spooky action at a distance comments above are pretty profound.kind of follows on in my mind to what i just said about new avenues of physics! my god what could be newer or more interesting . kind of takes me back to much earlier comments about those million or billion(?) year old alien societies that to us,to quote the late great arthur c clarke would be quite “indistinguishable from magic”! but thank you very much again for the postings and it is good to see you back. george

  • James M. Essig August 25, 2008, 23:17

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above kind words. God only knows what a billion year old ETI civilization would be capable of or what we humans will be capable of billions if not trillions of years into the future.

    I revisit a concept that was developed before I was born and that is the concept of the Tachyon Rocket. The first reference to tachyons I remember reading was a brief reference article regarding the highest velocities within a roughly 1970s yearly issue of “The Guinness Book of World Records” in which the concept of tachyons as particles that travel faster then light and as fast as billions of times C was mentioned.

    In accordance with previous related comments I made on the subject of tachyons about a year ago here at Tau Zero, I bring up the notion that perhaps, if tachyons have a limiting upper velocity just as inertial normal sub C matter has a limiting velocity of just under C, perhaps beyond this bounding value for tachyons of billions of C, there is another form of superluminal particle(s) that travel at exactly the utmost maximum theoretical speed limit of tachyons in an analogous manner that C, the speed of light, is the utmost maximum allowable speed for inertial normal matter.

    Perhaps beyond any constant velocity for the conjectured energy of billions of C, there is another region of velocities for yet more exotic particles that range in velocity from just above this billions of C constant speed limit to a yet much higher speed limit, followed by a yet another kind of particles that travels at a constant speed limit, and perhaps so on for yet additional particles in the series of ever greater constant speed limits and ever greater regions of variable speed capability.

    Do tachyons exist and will we ever discover them or produce them and utilize them in tachyon rockets and in tachyon beamed energy sails or energy collection systems? We as the growing cadre of human space heads do not yet know. However, I feel we have strong reasons to look forward to great discoveries as the LHC becomes operational this fall. The results should be fascinating and give us more hope in our endeavors to discern the path of our technological routes to the stars. It should be great fun.


    Your Friend Jim

  • James M. Essig August 26, 2008, 8:08

    Hi Folks;

    It seems to me that carrying all of the space craft fuel onboard from the start is a bad idea except in some hypothetical case where M would be much, much greater than E/(C EXP 2) for some unknown exotic type of matter.

    Perhaps huge nanoscale thickness filamentary arrays or matrices of superconducting wires could extract CMBR energy wherein the collected energy would be converted into laser beams or microwave beams to power craft to extreme gamma factors.

    On a more down to Earth note, perhaps inflatable or otherwise deployable reflective membranous structures can be used to concentrate solar energy to power PV, thermoelectric, turbo-electric, etc., systems that could then power laser beam generators. At 4 x 10 EXP 26 watts, the total solar output for just once second could accelerate 40 vessels with the mass of a modern day Nimitz Class nuclear powered aircraft carrier to .86 C . It seems to me that membranous solar concentrators are the way to go because of their very high mass specific reflectivity for ambient sunlight.

    It was recently reported that the shape of the surfaces at the nanometer level for Casimir experimental apparatus strongly effect the attractive Casimir force between the plates. My thinking is that perhaps thin film materials with a thickness on the order of nanometers to micrometers might be produced wherein one side of the film is mildly conducting while the other side of the film is highly conducting if not superconducting. The idea here is that some of the standing wave or would be standing wave zero point electromagnetic energy would leak out of the film on the less conducting side. The supporting material within might be a strong transparent dielectric with respect to the wavelengths of the standing waves developed.

    A version of such an apparatus with a thickness on the order of picometers or femtometers wherein the composite layers are made of some sort of stable neutronium or similar material would presumably result in much greater unbalanced Casimir Force per unit of collection area.

    The point is that there is plenty of ambient real and latent energy for which we have plenty of direct observational evidence that might be used to accelerate manned interstellar space craft to high gamma factors. I do not for the life of me believe that in the coming centuries if not decades, we could not launch high gamma capable manned craft in trajectories all over the Milky Way Galaxy. For those of us in the United States, I just heard Senator Ted Kennedy at the Democratic Convention make a reference to our successful manned lunar missions. Let us just hope the next administration will coincide with a great renewal of interest in manned space flight.



  • george scaglione August 26, 2008, 9:17

    jim, ok my friend! yes there can be things in the universe that may travel much faaaaaaster than c !!! god ! imagine if we could harness them! i know i’ve heard the concept of tachyon drives mentioned lol probably by you at some point…. now ,that, would be the very stuff of science fiction and lol maybe even the motive power of those alien ships i like to surmise about. – – as to your second posting today : yes more great ideas and concepts! i myself have made points in the past about space and all of the energy sources that i bet it contains that we might be able to harness for advanced space craft propulsion! the beginning of a new school year too my friend! ALWAYS GIVES ME THE HOPE that somewhere some young guy or gal is thinking, “gosh i’d like to be the one to begin a truly credible space drive of some kind in order to get us out there into space as i read about in sf !” so…then…something occurs to them and they begin to think about it and hahaha as i like to say…we are off to the races!!!!!we would have truly begun heading in the right direction.and since the progress of science and engineering has been exponential since the end of world war two,it even gives me hope that i,we,all of us here will see a great deal in our lifetimes! if by some chance marc millis happens to read this posting,i hope that he too will share his ideas on what i have just said! but anyhow i have other stuff to do today so i better calm down for now and wish everyone a great day!!! you know jim one more thing too i can see that your vacation did you a great service in clearing your mind to come back to us heck,maybe smarter than when you left! :) george

  • James M. Essig August 27, 2008, 8:00

    Hi Folks;

    Speaking of toriodal mass path fluxes, I wonder if weak force bosons could be used in some sort of weak force current apparatus that would minipulate the structure or curvature of space time or perhaps even the vacuum energy state minimum in which stable or metastable universes rest according to many Big Bang Theory versions.

    Granted even though the mean lifetime of the weak force bosons is about 3 x 10 EXP -27 seconds, perhaps through some yet to be constructed theoretical mechanism could allow the weak force Bosons to live much longer due to relativistic time dilation caused by accellerating the bosons from a rest mass of about 90 GeV to a relativistic KE of say 10 EXP 20 GeV or even greater.

    I once read of the concept that perhaps weak force neutral boson currents might conceivably have some application akin to electrical charged particle current, e.g., ordinary electric currents. This comment came from a philosophy of science text that was a requirement for an undergraduate philosophy of science course I took about a decade ago.

    Either way, I think the study of mass currents be the mass in the form of bulk un charged mass, superconducting material, or plasma, etc, has merit. Anything we can due to modify gravity might be used in a machine to bootstrap a small spacetime distortion into a large one commensurate with superluminal warp speed velocities according to various proposed theoretical mechanisms.

    Becase of the great deal of symmetry in physics, I would not be suprised if Maxwells Equations analogues exist of rotating masses, toriodal path mass flux weak force currents, and other electromagnet coil like analogues involving toroidal path mattergy flux currents.



  • george scaglione August 27, 2008, 9:35

    jim boy oh boy are we talking in the right place now! talk about speculative edge! you i am quite sure come out with some ideas that are REALLY advanced almost befitting my “million year old alien friends” !!! lol your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 28, 2008, 0:15

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above comments and kind words. My vacation at Ocean City New Jersey definately seems to have cleared my mind.

    There is a very interesting article on the Science News Website at:


    The article is about star formation in other universes.

    Since cosmologists have gone so far as to speculate that even if our universe is of infinite spatial extent, it may be just one universe on an infinite family tree of universes with each universe giving birth to innumerable baby universes during each differential unit of time. These baby universe, or at least some of them, inflate and give birth to additional universes in a never ending fractal tree, thus the reason for the name Chaotic Inflationary Theory for the associated theory of the cosmos.

    If there can be one such fractal verse or multiverse, why could their not exist innumerable fractal trees or fractal-verses that are either very weakly casually coupled or completely non-coupled.

    Perhaps there are higher levels to this hierarchy such as degenerate or completely separate scalar fields wherein each scalar field gives rise to a perhaps ever growing set of innumerable fractal verses. Perhaps there may be no end to the level of such hierarchies. I have read of speculations of such on atleast a few occasions.

    One can also imagine that there might exist 4 dimensional stars, 5 dimensional stars, 6 dimensional stars,…, in other universes with higher numbers of macroscopically extended dimensions. If there does exist such higher dimensional stars, whatever their mechanism of power production, depending on the fine grained structure of the space that they inhabit, the power production of such stars with a radius equal to one solar radius could be any where from (10 EXP 35)(10 EXP 9) times the power output of our Sun to Infinitely greater power output for Planck distance scale and infinitely continuous space respectively for 4 dimensional stars.

    The volume, Vn, of a Hypersphere in n dimensional continuous space is as follows;

    Vn = [(pi) EXP (n/2)](R EXP n)/{gamma function [(n/2) + 1]}. The gamma function for even n is (n/2)!. For odd n, the gamma function is [(pi) EXP (1/2)][n!!]/{2 EXP [(n + 1)/2]} where !! denotes the double factorial operation. For an ordinary ball in 3-D, the volumetric formula yields the familiar [(4 pi)/3](R EXP 3). For a hypersphere of 4-D, the volume is {[(pi) EXP 2]/2}(R EXP 4), and for 5-D, the volume is [(8)(pi EXP 2)/(15)](R EXP 5). As one can see, with infinitely fine grained space, a 4-D sphere has infinitely more volume than a 3-D sphere just as a cube is made up of a stack of an infinite number of squares planar sections. Likewise, a 5-D sphere has infinitely more volume than a 4-D sphere and so on.

    With ordinary Planck scale spatial grainularity, the volume, Vn, of an n-D sphere star with a Radius of 1,000,000 kilometers is [(Planck distance in meters) EXP -1](10 EXP 3)(10 EXP 6)[Vn-1]. If we find such stars, what an amazing power source they might be commensurate with the huge increase in reacting mass volume for each incremental increase in dimensionality of the star.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 28, 2008, 9:23

    jim wow yeah…good stuff,tell me about it i am just finishing up on stephen hawkings a brief history of time for about the third time! as i keep insisting…i am a lucky guy!! thank you one and all your friend george scaglione

  • James M. Essig August 29, 2008, 11:25

    Hi George;

    I just read an interesting article posted on the University of Texas website about the inauguration of a 1.1 petawatt laser at UT. The beam pulses of the laser are of relatively low energy, probably measured in Joules or tens of Joules since the pulse durations are probably measured in femtoseconds although I cannot speak for UT since I have not researched this topic beyond the brief subject article I read.

    However, by focusing the 1.1 petawatt laser onto very small pellets of fusionable fuel, perhaps new nuclear fusion reaction sequences can somehow be produced that were previously unknown. Given the hundreds of isotopes that exist for elements of atomic number less than that of Iron or Nickel, the number of potential fusion sequences could be very large. Studies of the details of such can give us valuable insight and perhaps new fundamental discoveries of the workings of the strong nuclear force within the field of quantum-chromo-dynamics.

    The reality that small but still macroscopic pellets of fusionable fuels can be blasted by this laser within the confines of a very controlled laboratory setting offers benefits over studying the nuclear products of thermonuclear weapons whose huge energy release vaporizes and ionizes any nearby equipment.

    It could be interesting to develop some sort of laser apparatus/particle accelerator combination to study the effects of using such intense laser beam pulses on unstable fundamental particles such as muons and even tau leptons.
    Blasting composite unstable particles such as kions, pions, mesons, and unstable heavy nuclei and the like might also offer an entirely new window of sub-atomic physics research.

    Anything we learn regarding subatomic physics and any new methods of probing particles, be the particles fundamental or composite, can only help our cause for manned interstellar travel.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 29, 2008, 15:39

    jim i can only tend to agree with what you have stated above.fusion drive will without a doubt be very important in the future! unless lol i am wrong.but could i be wrong? you betcha.(!)but seriously i think we would all agree that any new work done in physics could only encourage our ideas for space drives and exploration of at the “very least” the solar system.everybody keep on thinking and keep on typing ! your friend george

  • James M. Essig August 29, 2008, 21:07

    Hi George;

    Thanks for the above response and comments.

    I had some musings on the concept of very large but finite numbers even though finite quantities are paltry compared to any infinite quantities such as sets containing the entire set of integers which have a Cardinality of Aleph 0 members. The set containing all real numbers has a Cardinality of Aleph 1. Likewise, there are ever greater infinities of Aleph 2, Aleph 3, Aleph 4, and an unending ascending series of ever greater Cardinalities.

    But since I am considering large finite numbers here, I will start with the number of states that a quantum computer could be in that had as many particles as there are particles within the observable universe, which is roughly about 10 EXP 90. The number of such states can be expressed very briefly by the short equation Ns = 2 EXP (number of particles in observable universe) ~ 2 EXP (10 EXP 90) which is a very concise and short.

    I than begin to think about that vastly greater number of (10 EXP 100) EXP (10 EXP 100). I than begin thinking about the finite number (10 EXP 100) EXP [(10 EXP 100) EXP 100]. Now we are really getting big but still infinitesimal compared to the size of even Aleph 0.

    I than began to think of the operation of tetration of say 5 tet 5 which is 5 EXP {5 EXP [5 EXP (5 EXP 5)]}. Even 2 tet 4 is large at 2 EXP [2 EXP (2 EXP 2)] = 2 EXP 16 = 65,536. Then I begin to imagine the huge size of {(10 EXP 100) EXP [(10 EXP 100) EXP 100]} tet {(10 EXP 100) EXP [(10 EXP 100) EXP 100]} and reflected how large of an actual well defined finite number this is even though I have defined it in just a few dozen symbolic characters. I then thought of using the tet operation and fully covering every square centimeter a several acre area with a definition of an actual integer expressed as a nested series of tetration operations involving the base of 100 such as above. I went even further by imagining a sheet of paper with an area equal to the entire surface area of the Earth expressing an unimaginably larger number yet with similar notation. I imagined an analogue involving a sheet of paper the area of a surface bounding the 3 spatial dimensions of the observable universe. Then, I imagined an analogue involving a 3-D storage mechanism to store the symbolic text wherein the text storage density is equal to that of a 3-D quantum computer memory with the volume of the observable universe.

    Considering such a huge number, I said to my self, it is still nothing compared to Aleph 0. The point is that even if our universe is finite, it can still be fantastically large and may continue growing for all eternity. What is more, there may still exist an indefinably large Cardinality of infinity of decoupled universes. If there are no such number of universes, than they obviously cannot effect us. If there are, then being decoupled from ours, they cannot effect us either. Thus, there seems to me no philosophical issues dealing with infinite values that could even remotely prove that there are not such a Cardinality of decoupled universes. Yes, the creation is far beyond our ability to comprehend. Since we have all eternity to explore it, in the spirit of Tau Zero, I say “To The Stars” and let the fun begin.


    Your Friend Jim

  • george scaglione August 30, 2008, 11:05

    jim very interesting… a number so large that it is written on a piece of paper with the surface area of the earth! man o man! we sure are in the right place on the site.and yes even if finite our universe can still be quite vast and still growing funny thing this should come up because at this time i am once again reviewing stephen hawkings book black holes and baby universes.having recently again finished a brief history of time. lol i enjoy staying in there plugging.hawkings work is not always immediately clear to me but it is always extremely interesting to say the least! thank you your friend george